338 Federal

[Ardent]

You're really thinking way to much into this buds. Load cool looking round into chamber. Point rifle at organs of animal that aid it in living. Pull trigger and repeat as necessary until animal ceases living. I don't know a deer that gives two sh!t$ about calculations or sectional density.

Hunted a lot of big game where sectional density did make a difference, the last one was a wounded Wildebeest at very short range a week and a half ago. Seen enough side by side comparisons of hits to come to a strong opinion that SD is one of the most important factors in killing following shot placement of course. Not everybody is hunting soft versions of bambi and nothing else is a good way to put it.

I'm sure the .338 Fed is just swell, but I'm also pretty sure it won't offer anything to hunters a .308 won't, especially when you consider not finding rounds at Canadian Tire. We get pretty caught up in marketing, and I'm not catching the improvement on this one beyond it being a different flavour of the ammo and rifle marketing kool aid.

 

[Ardent]

Readily available quality 308 brass
Good selection of quality bullets
Within my max range of 300 yards and its still going over 2000 fps
Little meat damage
Low recoil
Moderate speeds
Short action

1. 308 is of course the equal here, except loaded ammunition is available cheaply, worldwide, too.

2. So does the .308, even better actually.

3. So does the .308, just use well constructed bullets, heavy for cartridge. Meat damage shows up with frangible, high velocity bullets. Just about any hunting cartridge has loads that produce little meat damage.

4. .308's low recoil too.

5. Moderate speeds can be done in the .308 just swell too, 200gr.

6. Short action is ubiquitous, same for .308, and it's not a benefit in the real world but people are attracted to them.


I just see a lot of marketing, and I'm not going to win any arguments in this crowd. I'd still like to see how the 250gr does in the .338 Fed, if it performs well I'd have a good deal more interest in the cartridge. For 220gr and below, might as well be a .30 cal as you also benefit from the better SD and BC.

 

[todbartell]

How does it do with 250gr?

2300 fps with the 250gr Hornady Interlock round nose

I'm not a particular fan of either cartridge, and only know the .308, which is a very good short action hunting round needless to say. Just trying to see why / where the .338 Federal has a strong calling.

All I know is my 338f is pushing a 30gr heavier bullet than the 308 at the same speed. I've got 2500 fps with a 225gr BoatTail SP, not sure what speed a 308 would shoot a 220 round nose at but I'm guessing 2200-2300 fps.

3000 fps with a 160gr Barnes TTSX, a 308 would push that bullet at around 2750 fps. Sectional density is low but I'd not hesitate to point that bullet at a moose or elk, probably would out penetrate a 210gr Partition

the advantage I see to going with a 308 would be rifle availability, ammo availability, and the ability to shoot 110-150gr bullets for varmint or slightly lower recoil. If you're a handloader who often hunts game larger than deer I believe the 338F is the way to go.

 

[Ardent]

2300fps at 250grs is not too shabby, if one built a custom .338 Fed on an intermediate / x57 length action and gave it a long throat to be able to seat out the long bullets, might be a very neat low-recoil Africa cartridge.

 

[archie_james_c]

2300fps at 250grs is not too shabby, if one built a custom .338 Fed on an intermediate / x57 length action and gave it a long throat to be able to seat out the long bullets, might be a very neat low-recoil Africa cartridge.

Might as well just build a .338-06.

 

[Ardent]

Might as well just build a .338-06.

I agree, but trying to see where this cartridge could shine.

 

[Camp Cook]

I load my 21" barreled T/C Contender carbine in 375JDJ with .473 BC 260gr Accubonds @ 2300fps I DRT a 6' black bear a couple of years ago excellent performance.

When this cartridge was first introduced in Contender handgun form they loaded it with 270gr Hornady spire points @ 1950 - 2000fps and took every kind of animal in Africa I don't know what load they used but they also shot elephants.

I'm thinking that a 338 Fed loaded with 250gr bullets @ 2300fps will do the job nicely...

 

[Ardent]

When this cartridge was first introduced in Contender handgun form they loaded it with 270gr Hornady spire points @ 1950 - 2000fps and took every kind of animal in Africa I don't know what load they used but they also shot elephants.

I'm sure she's a good cartridge but this shouldn't be recommended for either the JDJ or the .338 Fed. Even .375 H&H with solids is honestly too little for elephant, Bell and the 7x57 and .303 aside, he was a professional.

I do think with 250's in an intermediate action it just might be a really neat bushveld and Northern boreal rifle. Efficient on powder, for sure.

 

[todbartell]

I do think with 250's in an intermediate action it just might be a really neat bushveld and Northern boreal rifle. Efficient on powder, for sure.

the 338f is not a 9.3x62. Nor was it designed to be. It shoots a bit bigger bullet than a 308 or 30-06 at similar speeds, and can be chambered in light handy rifles and won't rip your head off when you pull the trigger.

 

[Sakonut]

Hunted a lot of big game where sectional density did make a difference, the last one was a wounded Wildebeest at very short range a week and a half ago. Seen enough side by side comparisons of hits to come to a strong opinion that SD is one of the most important factors in killing following shot placement of course. Not everybody is hunting soft versions of bambi and nothing else is a good way to put it.

I'm sure the .338 Fed is just swell, but I'm also pretty sure it won't offer anything to hunters a .308 won't, especially when you consider not finding rounds at Canadian Tire. We get pretty caught up in marketing, and I'm not catching the improvement on this one beyond it being a different flavour of the ammo and rifle marketing kool aid.

Yeah, I hear ya, just poking some fun...I should really learn to put smiley faces when I make joke facetious comments haha

 

[beretta boy]

Wonder if the 338 Fed. will flash, fizzle & linger like the 358 Win. ?

Hope not as both would seem to very good cartridges for a variety of game, and
likely, one of the better choices for Eastern Deer, Moose & Bear.

With either, I would certainly reload, as I do for the 35 Whelen.

 

[Traps]

Hunted a lot of big game where sectional density did make a difference, the last one was a wounded Wildebeest at very short range a week and a half ago. Seen enough side by side comparisons of hits to come to a strong opinion that SD is one of the most important factors in killing following shot placement of course. Not everybody is hunting soft versions of bambi and nothing else is a good way to put it.

I'm sure the .338 Fed is just swell, but I'm also pretty sure it won't offer anything to hunters a .308 won't, especially when you consider not finding rounds at Canadian Tire. We get pretty caught up in marketing, and I'm not catching the improvement on this one beyond it being a different flavour of the ammo and rifle marketing kool aid.

I love these posts, do you drive a Chev or a Ford? Chev's are better than Fords and I'll tell you why..........

Sectional density means very little, its about velocity and bullet construction. You can shoot a 250 grain bullet and get less penetration by shooting it faster and from another bullet you can shoot a 250 grain bullet faster and get more penetration. It is a real conundrum isn't it?

Todays mono bullets makes sectional density an unfair comparison to other bullets.

The 308 is a great cartridge and anything based off the 308 has remained alive through association and from its own good merits. Each one is going to have its advantages and disadvantages and as you elegantly fish it out its in the eye of the beholder.

 

[Ardent]

I love these posts, do you drive a Chev or a Ford? Chev's are better than Fords and I'll tell you why..........

Sectional density means very little, its about velocity and bullet construction. You can shoot a 250 grain bullet and get less penetration by shooting it faster and from another bullet you can shoot a 250 grain bullet faster and get more penetration. It is a real conundrum isn't it?

Todays mono bullets makes sectional density an unfair comparison to other bullets.

The 308 is a great cartridge and anything based off the 308 has remained alive through association and from its own good merits. Each one is going to have its advantages and disadvantages and as you elegantly fish it out its in the eye of the beholder.

And I get a chuckle out of posts like yours, I'm reading your post, then reading my post, and getting a laugh when Ford / Chev comes in as I feel it's the same argument. You're saying it's 6 of one and half a dozen of the other, and I'm saying sure you gain a smidge of velocity but you lose SD. SD still matters in today's wonder bullets, they just penetrate even further than their cup and core predecessors. I've shot game big enough to stop and capture 300gr Barnes out of my .375 and not go quite as far in the animal as I would like, and in retrospect would have loaded the 350gr Barnes had they been available to me at the time. I've also shot smaller game with the rifle (Elk sized) and seen 235gr Barnes penetrate only half as far as the 300gr. Arguing SD doesn't matter in the age of wonder bullets is like saying your knife no longer needs to be sharp today because of the new crucible wonder steels available. While the steel and the mono-metal bullets work better, they don't change the physics.

I am certain the .338 Fed won't do anything the .308 won't already, and one place it seems we agree is that it's a pick your flavour argument. You called it Ford / Chev, I called it marketing to sell guns & ammo. Where we differ is you feel SD is an archaic consideration of bullets gone by, I've seen different. I don't presume the guy buying a .338 Federal is only planning to shoot 180lb deer, and I do presume the average guy (not bartell) shooting 200grs out of his .338 figures he's shooting bigger medicine than the guy in the next stand with a .308- not so.

 

[todbartell]

200gr @ 2700 fps vs 165gr @ 2700 fps. Which is more gun?

 

[Ardent]

These are both the top Hodgdon loads for the 200gr bullet weight in each cartridge.

.308 Win: 200grs at 2,582fps and an SD of .301
.338 Fed: 200grs at 2,597fps and an SD of .250

Honestly, the .308 is the bigger gun there. Even if you give the .338 another 100fps, I still have to tip my hat to the .308. An SD of .300 is a magic number- Holland & Holland set it as a design criteria for the .375 H&H with the 300gr loading, and it's also the SD of the 7x57 175gr and the 9.3x62 286gr. All mild mannered cartridges known for remarkable effectiveness on tough game, the .338 Fed follows the same mild, heavy bullet path but without the SD in its standard loadings. Still intrigued by the 250gr loading in a longer action, but I'd stick with the .308 if interested in the lighter loadings.

 

[guntech]

It was made because Winchester discontinued the 358 Winchester and the market needed a new cartridge... notice I said the 'market' not the consumer. Just like the short mags were created for the 'market'.

Old ballistics in a new package.

 

[todbartell]

These are both the top Hodgdon loads for the 200gr bullet weight in each cartridge.

.308 Win: 200grs at 2,582fps and an SD of .301
.338 Fed: 200grs at 2,597fps and an SD of .250

And a 7-08 should shoot a 200gr bullet @ 2565 fps?? And be more deadly than a 338f? 243 Win 200gr @ 2550 fps? Something doesn't sound right there.

I've chrony'd factory Federal 200gr Fusion @ 2718 fps in my 22" brl Ruger m77. I've shot 200gr Accubonds, 200gr Ballistic Silvertips & 200gr Interlocks @ 2700 fps with IMR 8208xbr, H4895 and Varget.

Not sure what velocity a 308 will push a 200gr bullet in a factory load, I can't seem to find anyone who makes such a thing. Only time I've tried 200gr in a handload was in a friend's m7 308 and we got about 2450 fps with a stiff load of Varget.

Not everyone handloads, the 338F gives an edge over the 308, SD or not. A 210gr Partition @ 2600+ fps will break bone and kill animals. I'm not saying a 308 won't work, obviously it does and has for decades, even with low SD 150gr plain jane vanilla soft points @ 2800 fps, on bigger critters too like elk and moose. Amazing that they don't bounce off SD is .226

 

[bearkilr]

Wonder if the 338 Fed. will flash, fizzle & linger like the 358 Win. ?

I suspect it'll be about as popular as the 338 RCM, in other words, not at all. There's too many other calibers out there that'll meet or exceed what it can do.

 

[Traps]

......338 figures he's shooting bigger medicine than the guy in the next stand with a .308- not so.

The more you open the caliber the bigger medicine it is, 338F is bigger than 308 which is bigger than 7mm-08, which is bigger than 243. I think you'd agree with me there. The larger the caliber the higher efficiency for a given amount of powder.

I think penetration has more to do with velocity than SD because velocity controls expansion and expansion controls penetration.

A 200 grain bullet at 2800 fps (=80 momentum)

A 250 grain bullet at 2240 fps (=80 momentum)

The 250 grain penetrates further because velocity is lower.

Now if you shoot that same 250 grain bullet at minimum expansion velocity of say 1800 fps you'd get better penetration than the 250 grain bullet at 2240 fps. Its also pretty safe to say with the same hunting bullet a 30-06 will out penetrate a 300 win mag because of expansion. This is the main reason why moderate velocity cartridges perform surprisingly well.

Back to your original question a 250 grain should do 2200 fps, 300 grain 2000 fps.

 

[archie_james_c]

.308 Win: 200grs at 2,582fps and an SD of .301
.338 Fed: 200grs at 2,597fps and an SD of .250.

Why the hell would I shoot 200 grain bullets at 2597 in my .338F when I can shoot 225 grainers in it at 2550?

Your argument is truly ford vs. chevy. If you want to shoot a bull moose from the back of the ribs and out his chest load a 185TTSX in the .338 or a 168TTSX in the .308 and go to town....nuff said.