338 lapua or 300 RUM

[pilot2001]

If you are only getting 2850fps from a 7RM, I would consider changing the powder you are using. 3000fps is pretty straightforward with todays powders.

What are you burning?

Jerry

Actually Jerry im getting 2750 with a 180VLD and im shooting Retumbo. However with that load i have shot 5 shot groups in a Canadian Quarter at 300 yards. And any day of the week it will shoot 1.25 - 1.5 inches at 300.

I have also had the rifle up as far as 3180 with out real bad pressure , But you can guess how the accuracy was. Then after 71gr of powder the velociteis dropped ... just not burning it

having said that my buddy i was talking about with the 7rem running the 180vld and actually i think he's getting 3050 to be precise. Is only getting 2.5 inches at 300 yards but is getting 2.5 at 600 aswell. Making me think i should not be worring about what its doing at 300 and focus on 600 plus. Possibly working my speeds up a bit more.

I do like Retumbo Just because its not as temp sensitive.

I have done a fair amount of LongRanging the last couple years and i believe im at a level that i would consider " quite a bit better than average " but definatly not " really good " ... yet ! Im going to step up my reloading practices to another level this year to make sure my brass is absolutly dialed for ultimate consistency, I already trim my outside necks , Aneal after every shot , cut my primer pocketts , debur my flash holes, and am militant about my runnout. Amogst the other normal practices that dont need to be mentioned. However in need to order some new dies next week, i would like to be able to bump my shoulder back the 2 or 3 thou that they need to be.

Ive actually bin thinking of contacting you after reading some of your post's over the past few months just to get some more insight from you.
Any feed back or idea's you have i would love to hear.

 

[pilot2001]

Not sure where you got barrel life of 1000 rounds for a 7mm rm and 5000 for a 338 Lapua but that is way way off. When I changed my last 7mm barrel it had over 2500 rounds and still was under moa but 1500 is probably a realistic number. I think it may be roughly the same or a little less for the 338 lapua.
Also your calcualted cost of reloading is off. It is at least 50 cents a shot more for the 338 Lapua( not counting brass which is close to 4 times more for 338 Lapua brass).

Agreed , Lapua is far more exspensive to shoot than a 7rem , And 7rem is typically good for 2500.

 

[hawk-i]

Yeah, guess I was out on barrel life but most are saying the Lapua mag will get 3-4000 rounds out of the barrel.
as far as reload costs:
7 rm at 60grs of powder at 30.00/lb equals 26 cent per round
168 gr. Berger VLD equals 53 cents per round
equals 79 cents per round
338 LM @ 90 grs powder at 30.00/lb equals39 cents per round
250 gr Scenar equal 75 cents per round
equals 114 cents per round
The difference is only 35 cents per round
7rm Hornady brass eqaul 1.50 each ... 338 LM Hornady brass equals 2.60 each
I'm not seeing the HUGE extra cost some people are saying

 

[Kelly Timoffee]

It's all relative.

You wanna shoot a bit further accurately, it will cost a bit more.

You want to shoot a lot further accurately, it will cost a lot more.

Yeah, guess I was out on barrel life but most are saying the Lapua mag will get 3-4000 rounds out of the barrel.
as far as reload costs:
7 rm at 60grs of powder at 30.00/lb equals 26 cent per round
168 gr. Berger VLD equals 53 cents per round
equals 79 cents per round
338 LM @ 90 grs powder at 30.00/lb equals39 cents per round
250 gr Scenar equal 75 cents per round
equals 114 cents per round
The difference is only 35 cents per round
7rm Hornady brass eqaul 1.50 each ... 338 LM Hornady brass equals 2.60 each
I'm not seeing the HUGE extra cost some people are saying

 

[Canuck525]

Yeah, guess I was out on barrel life but most are saying the Lapua mag will get 3-4000 rounds out of the barrel.
as far as reload costs:
7 rm at 60grs of powder at 30.00/lb equals 26 cent per round
168 gr. Berger VLD equals 53 cents per round
equals 79 cents per round
338 LM @ 90 grs powder at 30.00/lb equals39 cents per round
250 gr Scenar equal 75 cents per round
equals 114 cents per round
The difference is only 35 cents per round
7rm Hornady brass eqaul 1.50 each ... 338 LM Hornady brass equals 2.60 each
I'm not seeing the HUGE extra cost some people are saying

Your figures are still off substantially.
Remington or winchster 7mm rm brass is about $70 plus tax for 100 pieces. Lapua brass is about $250-$300 plus tax for 100 pieces. I'm not sure why anyone would want to use Hornady brass in either.

 

[Mystic Precision]

pilot2001, if the load you have works at LR, speed is of little relevance. Vertical dispersion IS. Besides at your speed, pressures are low so bore life will likely be 2 to 3 times what your buddy going over 3000fps will see.

Bore life really depends on what accuracy and precision mean to you. From an F class shooters perspective, we take off barrels that will shoot better then many "precision hunting" rigs can new.

In general, all of these boomers are going to show accuracy reduction by 1000rds. The 338LM does have a better bore life but I doubt it will be all that accurate after 1500rds. There is a lot of bore left to hit a VW Bug size target at 1 mile but to hit the steering wheel, you are going to be swapping out barrels far more often.

The 284/180 F Open rigs are seeing 2000rds of competitive useage. The 280 reg, improved and RSAUM's are likely around 1200rds. A 7RM run hot, might only see 750rds

Gives you an idea of what 100 to 200fps of extra speed means in wear and tear.

Ironically, if extreme LR shooting is the goal, initial velocity is of less concern. You are going subsonic no matter what you use so an extra 100 or 200yds is of little benefit. The drop will be much higher but you are going to need a heap of up no matter what.

Better to have a set up that will give you near zero vertical and decent accuracy. Something that is reliable and tracks well cause any variations are going to be magnified to the point of pulling hair out once you get past 1000yds.

For extreme range shooting, a F Open type load tuning is ideal. As long as you choose a bullet that will handle going subsonic, distance is really dependent on elevation and when the barrel blocks the scope view...

Jerry

 

[Canuck525]

Jerry
In your experience is there any way to guestimate what bullets might handle going subsonic better than others? Is it usually the high weight high bc vlds?

 

[thumper1]

Well boys I picked up a 7mm RUM (not from ATRS unfort ) for now. Now I gotta wait for the 195's to come out

 

[Mystic Precision]

Jerry
In your experience is there any way to guestimate what bullets might handle going subsonic better than others? Is it usually the high weight high bc vlds?

I certainly don't have the tools to tell empirically what might happen so I just shoot them.

Real easy. See where the ballistic program suggests you go transonic/subsonic. Shoot to that distance and see if there are any accuracy loses vs closer in. If no problem, shoot them at least 200yds further. If they make the trip, good to go.

Why 200yds? Bullets take a while to wag their tails and tumble. Given their speed they will cover alot of ground in the milliseconds before tumbling.

shot with a gent and his 308. 1200yds, drilling them in there. Then we moved to 1400yds - couldn't keep them on a side of the mountain. Back to 1200 yds, right in there. 1400yds, whoopie. It was really cool to see that and we went back and forth a few times to ensure we weren't making a mistake.

I have since seen that same bullet go out to 1 mile with zero problems SO.......

YMMV. We are still scratching our heads on this one?

Jerry

 

[.284]

Thumper, I think you may be out of luck for the 195's if you have a standard 9.5 twist barrel. The extra speed may stabilize them but I have my doubts. Grab some 180's and try them out. They are for a 9 twist but I think you might get away with the extra velocity of the 7 rum to stabilize. Ask around to make sure

 

[thumper1]

Thanks .284 i'll try some 180's to start out thanks for the heads up

Thumper, I think you may be out of luck for the 195's if you have a standard 9.5 twist barrel. The extra speed may stabilize them but I have my doubts. Grab some 180's and try them out. They are for a 9 twist but I think you might get away with the extra velocity of the 7 rum to stabilize. Ask around to make sure

 

[Suputin]

Your choices are only big, but not necessarily "best' for long range. There is the misconception that a round has to be big and heavy to shoot long range. In fact, it has to be big to shoot heavy, but you don't need heavy to shoot accurately at long distance, you need long.

Many 1000 yard records have fallen to 6mm bullets. For a long time, 6.5 cartridges dominated F-Class and now it is the 7mm bullets. Why? Because to make a bullet perform well at long range it needs to be shaped right and quite long. For a given caliber, this means that the wider the bullet, the longer and consequently, the MUCH heavier they need to be. By the time you get up to 30 caliber, you need to be looking at 220+grain bullets, and in 338 you are into 300 grains. That takes a huge powerful cartridge to make them work. That requires lots of powder, and expensive bullets.

You can achieveequal and even superior performance from smaller calibers, and about the best balance right now has to be the ol' 284 Winchester. With the much rumoured 195 grain bullets, it may not be enough, so a short magnum may be the ticket. the recoil will be far less than a RUM or LapMag, and because you cannot compete with muzzle brakes, if you decided to dabble in long range competition, the smaller calibers will give you accuracy, manageable recoil and versatility.

Ed Zachary.

The one thing nobody has mentioned is that big heavy bullets produce a lot more recoil. To get good at long range shooting you have to shoot .... a lot. That is a pain (literally) when the rifle kicks the cr@p out of you with every shot. Sure we can be big tough men and claim that recoil doesn't bother us but deep down we all know that is BS. I have spent lots of time with some serious boomers and honestly it isn't a lot of fun.

The 6mm or 6.5mm rounds are excellent for long range shooting and don't beat you up at all. I got out to 2000 yds with a hot rodded 243. That kicks the cr@p out of a 308 and likely even a 300.