338 lapua

HKMark23 said:
Though you're talking about technical merits and ranges that are out of my league, if you're implying its a 300 g bullet or nothing,, I don't believe you.
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The 250 grainers certainly do work....I was speaking in comparative teams and not absolute. The poster is starting from scratch and wants to shoot accurately to 1500 yards.

I choose the 300smk for the same reason a few guys choose the 50bmg for long range shooting...Down range bullet performance.....Way far downrange.

If you compare wind drift between a 7Rmag 180 gr, a 300 Win 190 gr, and a 338 Lapua with 250 gr you will find very little difference in wind deflection. The 250 Scenar being the champ (and probably the best bullet to use in the TRG), but about half the reduction in wind drift of the 300SMK.

Now go to JBM online and compare them all to the 300SMk at 1500 yards and tell me what you see?? Big difference?

Go ask Rick at Alberta Tactical or any of the guys at LR Hunting what they think of the 300SMk at extreme range.
Ask them what it does to an animal while your at it.
 
Buy a Rem 700 or the Savage, Use Hornady brass ( it's half the price of Lapua). A magnum primer and Sierra match king bullets. Try Vivitori N165 powder and start with the Sierra accuracy load. Mine 700 tactical will do 3/8 inch groups when I do my part. As far as a scope goes a Leopold T4 Tactical is a good starting point. If you can afford a better scope buy one. My reloading cost are 2-3 dollars a round.
 
sendero said:
+1 for HKMark23,
300gr bullet is not FAR BETTER then the 250grainer, i have shoot my TRG few time to 1500m and most of the time at 1000m with excellent result, i'am using blackhills 250gr, consider also that, i'am far from being a good shooter as some are on this board !!!

Like it's been said, the AI is having a better twist rate for the heavier 300gr but it is not more accurate then the TRG, Zak Smith have done some test, here is the link !!!
http://demigodllc.com/articles/military-338-lapua-rifles-trg42-awsm/
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Good write up!
Here is a quote.

"The most common military ammunition for the .338 Lapua is the B408 "Lock Base" 250-grain FMJ load from Lapua. Armor-piercing (AP) and armor-piercing incendiary (API) loads are also available. Lapua's other 250-grain bullet is
the Scenar, which has a higher ballistic coefficient (BC) than the Lock Base, at 0.675 compared to 0.662. The other popular long-range bullet for the .338 Lapua is the 300-grain SMK, which has a BC of 0.760. Sierra recommends a twist of one in ten inches for the heavy SMK, so it is not a viable choice for the TRG (1:12). The AWSM has a twist of one in eleven inches, which stabilized the 300-grain MatchKing in all of our testing and yielded substantially less wind drift beyond 1000 yards than the Scenar."

Here is another quote.
"The TRG cannot reliably stabilize the 300-grain SMK, which is a better bullet for ultra-long-range shooting than the 250-grain Scenar; the AWSM can. ".

Just checking, but isn't he saying he same thing that I did?
 
X-fan, the 300 vs 250 gr bullet appears, for practical purposes, to be a technical nit. I believe you've picked it correctly,, and sufficiently. If I were you, I wouldn't dream of wasting my attention on a lesser round than your 300 gr wonder.

Those of us who must suffer in the shadow of your 300gr bullet's superior performance now know we're #### outa luck past 1500 yds on a windy day.
 
Yep, what else can i say, you win, you are the best, i'll have no choice but keep shooting my poor man 338LM TRG and i only pray that if one day, i deserve better, i'll be allowed to own, shoot a AI and thoses magic 300gr bullet. In the mean time, i'll be using my 250gr and just cross my finger and hope it will punch my target or drop my game :cheers:
enough waisted time for me

Respectfully

Marc



X-fan said:
Good write up!
Here is a quote.

"The most common military ammunition for the .338 Lapua is the B408 "Lock Base" 250-grain FMJ load from Lapua. Armor-piercing (AP) and armor-piercing incendiary (API) loads are also available. Lapua's other 250-grain bullet is
the Scenar, which has a higher ballistic coefficient (BC) than the Lock Base, at 0.675 compared to 0.662. The other popular long-range bullet for the .338 Lapua is the 300-grain SMK, which has a BC of 0.760. Sierra recommends a twist of one in ten inches for the heavy SMK, so it is not a viable choice for the TRG (1:12). The AWSM has a twist of one in eleven inches, which stabilized the 300-grain MatchKing in all of our testing and yielded substantially less wind drift beyond 1000 yards than the Scenar."

Here is another quote.
"The TRG cannot reliably stabilize the 300-grain SMK, which is a better bullet for ultra-long-range shooting than the 250-grain Scenar; the AWSM can. ".

Just checking, but isn't he saying he same thing that I did?
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Don't want you to think I'm picking on the TRG because its a great rifle that I have nearly bought a few times. Also let me be the first to say that a better trigger man (better at reading the wind in this case) with 250's will out shoot me and the 300SMK's every time. I need all the help I can get at those sort of ranges.

Just sharing my 2cents.
 
Wish I got the last post out a little sooner....Did not intend to win, just to share my opinion. I've been outshot by a lot less rifle than the TRG 42.

FWIW I don't own an AI nor do I even like the stock. I mention it as it is the only other other off the shelf rifle I know of that is capable of great accuracy. I shoot a Rem 700 in 338 Edge....A fairly simplistic rifle compared to the TRG.

No disrespect or condescension intended.
 
Wasn't there a new 1000 yard record set recently with a .300 Wby Mag? IIRC the fellow shot a 100-8X. Don't you slowly get to a point of rapidly diminishing returns for $ invested?
 
I like OKTREE's calculation... it's nice, but that is supposing you have the 280, 86, 4 and 38 dollars to begin with. Not to mention the dies and reloading equipment.
 
Here ya go, just print this pic, and use these.

338.jpg
 
Drachenblut said:
I like OKTREE's calculation... it's nice, but that is supposing you have the 280, 86, 4 and 38 dollars to begin with. Not to mention the dies and reloading equipment.
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OKTREE's cost estimate looks right to me. Its about 30% higher than when I last worked it out for myself a few years ago. It would be interesting to see someone's likewise honest cost estimate for reloading the 300 WM for comparison.

:D in a way, this is all pretty funny. Complaining about the cost of reloading to feed these things (.338 LM) is like asking a Ferrari salesman about gas economy. At the risk of seeming sarcastic, have you costed out the rifle and glass ? This can go to 5 figures, I've done it !

As a plus for reloaders, its indeed a joyful experience to know you've saved $4.00 every time you pull the handle :D. Reloaders who mistake reloading 9mm handgun ammo for economy, "eat your hearts out" :D.
 
The 338 Lapua is one of the industry`s great underachievers. I shot one of the first to come to Canada. For a big price, one bought a rifle which performed just like a 338 Winchester.
In spite of this, marketing has done what actual performance could not. The cartridge has used an intimation of exclusivity to make up for it's lackluster performance and people all over have bought into it. Fascinating. Even government agencies have been suckered (Not that this is any great surprise. The " Who cares! It's not my money." attitude runs deep and wide.) .
338 Lapua performance is easily duplicated with the 340 Weatherby or any number of wildcat cartridges. All of these would be less expensive than the Lapua. Regards, Bill
 
Leeper said:
The 338 Lapua is one of the industry`s great underachievers. I shot one of the first to come to Canada. For a big price, one bought a rifle which performed just like a 338 Winchester.
In spite of this, marketing has done what actual performance could not. The cartridge has used an intimation of exclusivity to make up for it's lackluster performance and people all over have bought into it. Fascinating. Even government agencies have been suckered (Not that this is any great surprise. The " Who cares! It's not my money." attitude runs deep and wide.) .
338 Lapua performance is easily duplicated with the 340 Weatherby or any number of wildcat cartridges. All of these would be less expensive than the Lapua. Regards, Bill
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Nice brass thought!:D
 
Leeper said:
The 338 Lapua is one of the industry`s great underachievers. I shot one of the first to come to Canada. For a big price, one bought a rifle which performed just like a 338 Winchester.
In spite of this, marketing has done what actual performance could not. The cartridge has used an intimation of exclusivity to make up for it's lackluster performance and people all over have bought into it. Fascinating. Even government agencies have been suckered (Not that this is any great surprise. The " Who cares! It's not my money." attitude runs deep and wide.) .
338 Lapua performance is easily duplicated with the 340 Weatherby or any number of wildcat cartridges. All of these would be less expensive than the Lapua. Regards, Bill
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I've read several articles over the years dealing with the history and development of the .338 LM. There was even one, obviously silly, piece claiming the round was originally developed, by necking down the .416 Rigby, to answer a call by the US Navy snipers' something or other, to fill a certain spec. how ridiculous :rolleyes:!

Finally the real truth is known. This is indeed fascinating.
 
1899 said:
Tradex is listing Hornady made brass for $95/50:

http://www.tradeexcanada.com/index.php?option=com_paxgallery&task=view&gid=12&iid=5070
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I have never used Hornady brass in 338LM, although I have in 460S&W. It seems to be nice brass.

Where the Lapua 338LM Brass really shines in my opinion is consistency. I weighed and marked a box of 100 pieces, sorting into one grain increments. Five pieces fell into the 331gn pile, one into the 334gn (It weighed 333.7gn as I recall) pile with the remainder split roughly equally into the 332 and 333 piles. I have weighed and sorted 6BRNorma Lapua brass using the same sorting method with a similar weight spread. The benchrest grade 6BR brass weighs roughly 1/3 the 338LM with the same weight spread. To me, this would indicate that the Lapua 338LM is 3 times more consistent compared to the benchrest 6BR brass.

Again nothing wrong with the Hornady as far as I am concerned, however you are likely getting something of higher consistency when paying for the Lapua (Note: most places that I have seen 338LM brass, the asking price is $380 to $400 per box of 100 as compared to the $280 that I paid - shopping around can result in significant savings). Then again, perhaps I obtained an unusually consistent box of brass.
 
HKMark23 said:
I've read several articles over the years dealing with the history and development of the .338 LM. There was even one, obviously silly, piece claiming the round was originally developed, by necking down the .416 Rigby, to answer a call by the US Navy snipers' something or other, to fill a certain spec. how ridiculous :rolleyes:!

Finally the real truth is known. This is indeed fascinating.
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At no time did I make any claim as to any special knowledge of the history of the 338 Lapua. If I did, perhaps you can show me where. I do know that the first 338 Lapua Sako rifle brought into Canada was a hunting rifle and the ammunition supplied for it was hunting ammunition. This was about 18 to 20 years ago.
My statement was to address the performance of the round which nicely matched 338 Winchester ballistics and was eclipsed by the 340 Weatherby. By the way, I can't remember precisely when I saw the first 416 Rigby based 338 but it was in the early '70's. The owner made no mention of being a US Navy sniper but I suppose he could have been. Anyway, Lapua didn't have to do too much development work since it had been done many years previously.
So, when it comes to the reason for or the history of the development of the 338 Lapua, I neither know nor care. I am only pointing out that the performance of the round is easily achieved with cartridges utilizing commonly available brass which is less expensive and readily available. Regards, Bill
 
feeding it would not be too bad i would only fire 10 to 15 rounds since when i go to the range i take 3 or 4 rifles
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sorry it would be for both paper punching and LR hunting but mostly paper punching and hitting the gong as well right now my brother and i have 1000 yard and we will extend to 1500 in the spring
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You aren't going to learn to shoot long range 10-15 rounds at a sitting. A 300 WM would do everything you need at a much lower cost.
 
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