.338 Win Mag expander question

[BLR 81]

Hey guys, got a question... I've been reloading for a long time, with a great many calibres... But I have run into something with my .338 Win Mag dies that I have never seen before. To start with, the dies are Hornady. I got them last year when I started loading for my then new .338, and I noticed something weird that I have not seen in any other die set I have, regardless of how big the round. All my expanders give the neck .001" press fit for the bullet. My .338 expander gives the neck over .003" press fit... This seems a bit excessive, but Hornady assured me this is normal. Anyone else reload .338? Any input on neck/bullet press fit? The reason I ask is that the bullets often don't seat straight and tend to have a slight wobble.

P.S. the load I use is R19 and a 225 gr. Barnes TTSX, accuracy seems to be stellar (half MOA) although I did have one day where everything was flying funny... Problem may well have been me, but my 7-08 gave me awesome results that same day.

 

[Dogleg]

I use a lot of .003" under bushings, and have worked several expander balls down to .003 under on heavy kicking rifles. In the past I had trouble with inadequate neck tension in a few calibers particularly with TSX bullets. Hasn't happened lately, which may have as much to do with blind luck as anything else. Point being, I just keep on using the undersized expander on ordinary bullets, and different rifles of the same caliber. I've yet to see an instance where a rifle shot worse with more neck tension, but I've gotten sick of bullets that I can push farther into the case by hand or can move in the magazine. For what its worth my RCBS .338 die has a .336" button.

 

[BLR 81]

Fair enough. My main concern is that the bullets are not seating perfectly straight, which is NEVER a good thing. I wonder if I should try gently knocking them from the side with a small hammer to see if I can lessen the wobble after rolling them?

 

[Dogleg]

The easiest is to use a casemaster or similar and find out where the run-out is being introduced into the system. Check for un-even neck thickness. No die can fix bad brass. Test the fired case when it comes out of the gun. Round, out of round? Straight? Size it without the expander ball. Straight or crooked? If crooked its awful tempting to throw the die away since somewhere along the line dies got cheaper than a bag of brass, but don't rule out crap brass. If straight size with the expander ball removed. If there is run-out now, spin your decapping rod and straighten it, then make sure it is entered in the die. If that checks out, then check your neck thickness again. .001 difference in neck thickness is an automatic .002 in run-out and there is no particular reason to believe the neck is in the center of the sized case.There is also no reason to assume that the case is round unless you have proven it is.

Next, if you made it this far, seat a bullet and check the run-out on that. If you now find that your straight case is still resulting in crooked ammo, pull the bullet seater out and check for fit. The seater must contact on the ogive of the bullet, not the tip. If the tip is bottoming out getting a straight cartridge is just a matter of dumb luck. This used to be more common with older dies that nobody had anticipated using super pointy bullets in, but it still happens once in a while esp with VLDs. If the properly fitting bullet seater is still producing bent ammo with your proven straight, round cases with even necks then try seating the bullets half-way, then turning the case 180 degrees and finish seating the bullet. If that doesn't work figure out what part(s) you skipped. I'm willing to bet it has nothing to do with neck tension but if you think it might expander balls are cheap.

A while back I necked up 100 .300 RUM cases into .338 Edges. Generally the cases would have some truly horrendous runout until they are fired once, then they were perfect. I just used them for banging steel and checking drops and generally having fun. After a bunch of 4" groups at 800 yards I got this nagging feeling that I've wasted a lot more time on this than was absolutely warranted. Why don't you sort out all the bad ones and shoot those for group and see what you actually get? Not what you're told will happen, or what you think oughta happen, but just what the target says and nothing else? You might be surprised.

 

[Chinbullco]

Fair enough. My main concern is that the bullets are not seating perfectly straight, which is NEVER a good thing. I wonder if I should try gently knocking them from the side with a small hammer to see if I can lessen the wobble after rolling them?

What size is your expander button? What case trim tool are you using? Your cartridges trimmed square? I don't think .003" is too much for 338. Should remove bullet seater cup from die and make sure bullet fits cup. Bullet should not be seated with tip bottomed out in cup, if bullet is too long for cup drill the cup deeper with a 1/8" drill or smaller. If the bullet seater cup isn't your problem, its case mouths not square to cartridge. Trimmers that hold cartridge rim in a collet and need a pilot to guide cutter are a POS and cause nothing but problems. Wilson or CH-4D make trimmers that cut case mouths square. Wilson supplies a trimmer mounted 22 degree chamfer tool to give consistent depth chamfer.

When the seating cup supports bullet-nose circumference into properly prepped "square trimmed" and chamfered case mouths run out should be nil. If you are serious about the "small hammer solution" offering any assistance is a waste of time.

Instead of small hammer, pull a bullet on bullet wobbling round. Inspect the bullet to find the problem, if scratches run deep its a chamfering problem.

 

[BLR 81]

What size is your expander button? What case trim tool are you using? Your cartridges trimmed square? I don't think .003" is too much for 338. Should remove bullet seater cup from die and make sure bullet fits cup. Bullet should not be seated with tip bottomed out in cup, if bullet is too long for cup drill the cup deeper with a 1/8" drill or smaller. If the bullet seater cup isn't your problem, its case mouths not square to cartridge. Trimmers that hold cartridge rim in a collet and need a pilot to guide cutter are a POS and cause nothing but problems. Wilson or CH-4D make trimmers that cut case mouths square. Wilson supplies a trimmer mounted 22 degree chamfer tool to give consistent depth chamfer.

When the seating cup supports bullet-nose circumference into properly prepped "square trimmed" and chamfered case mouths run out should be nil. If you are serious about the "small hammer solution" offering any assistance is a waste of time.

Instead of small hammer, pull a bullet on bullet wobbling round. Inspect the bullet to find the problem, if scratches run deep its a chamfering problem.

The "small hammer" thing was to test if the neck was slightly out of round, to see if the bullet could be shifted in the neck. It couldn't. But hey, what would a certified CNC machinist of 12 years experience know about correcting runout... Sorry to waste your time!

Dogleg, thank you for the helpful advice. I will try what you suggest, including checking that the bullet isn't bottoming out in the seating cap... I really should have thought to check that one myself.