338WM vs. 300 WSM

mmattockx

mmattockx

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After having a great time hunting this year and getting my first two deer, my hunting buddy and I are planning on either a moose trip or elk next year in addition to deer locally. I shot my deer with a 6.5x55 and it is a perfect caliber for medium game.

For elk and moose, the 6.5x55 is a bit light (I know lots of moose have been taken with it, but realistically it is at the bottom of the range) and I don't want to limit myself to perfect shots only, as well as increased chances of a wounded animal. So that means a new rifle with more horsepower for tougher game. My buddy shoots a 300WSM and it is not that bad to shoot. Not a good time at the range for lots of rounds, but no problem in the field, especially with game in the scope.

Ballistically, the 300WSM with a 180gr. @ 3000fps is extremely close to the 338WM with a 225gr. @ 2800fps, with the 338 having an energy edge out to 400yds, but the 300 having a better BC bullet with less drop.

So, is there really any good reason to pick a 338WM over the 300WSM, considering it costs more to shoot and hits harder on the shoulder? The heavier bullets will do better at busting through bone and penetrating, but does anyone consider a premium 180gr. .308 bullet inadequate in that respect?

Mark
 
Gatehouse said:
Shoot an elk though the lungs with a good bullet form either cartridge and it will die promptly.
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While this is true, my 6.5x55 is perfectly adequate in this regard, too. Unfortunately, you don't always get a standing broadside shot at <200yds to work with.

I forgot to add that while I am not a vastly experienced hunter, I am an experienced shooter and am not worried about recoil from either round and am perfectly capable of shots to ~350yds under decent field conditions, so we can not bother with the rookie questions and wondering about my shooting ability and rounds fired.

Mark
 
you're really handicapping the 338 with that light bullet imo- the standard factory load is 250 at about 2600 fps, using a premium bullet- if you want to stomp bears, use the speer 275 if you can find them- and that 250 has knocked many an elk flat - as for the "other" it's just another 308 on speed
 
What season are you hunting? Are you hunting the rut? Are you able to call bull moose to close range, or are you expecting to be taking long shots?
If you're hunting the rut and getting close range shots, I'd recommend using your 6.5x55.

IMHO, the best .30cal going is the .30-06, but maybe you have a .30-06 already? No need for any .30 cal magnum.

I am a huge fan of the .338WM, but you could also consider the .35Whelen, 8mmRM (but you better handload) or .325WSM (.338WM stepsister).
 
t-star said:
you're really handicapping the 338 with that light bullet imo- the standard factory load is 250 at about 2600 fps, using a premium bullet- if you want to stomp bears, use the speer 275 if you can find them- and that 250 has knocked many an elk flat - as for the "other" it's just another 308 on speed
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I've hunted with the .338WM since 1990 and shot a fair share of moose, black bear etc... with it. My primary bullet for the majority has been the 225gr Nosler Partition. It is no handicap! In fact the moose that I did shoot with the 250gr Nosler Partitions didn't die any faster or any more dramatically.

In fact, I think the 225gr Nosler Partition is the single best bullet available for the .338WM.
 
Well since we have your credentials sorted out.....

I do not believe that you require the 338 for moose and a 300 will do just fine. Having said that, the 338 is one hell of a fine hunting round with a definite knock down advantage over the WSM. Some will argue, but I would not expect any less.

If you want that "extra insurance" then I think the 338 has an advantage.
 
I would encourage you to do a penetration test sometime in the coming months in which you compare a 140gr TSX from your 6.5 to a 180gr C&C from the .300WSM. Let us know which penetrates farther. You may convince yourself to stick with what you've got.
 
Jordan Smith said:
I would encourage you to do a penetration test sometime in the coming months in which you compare a 140gr TSX from your 6.5 to a 180gr C&C from the .300WSM. Let us know which penetrates farther. You may convince yourself to stick with what you've got.
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I know the 6.5 does a superb job in that respect (TSX doesn't make a 140gr., just the 120gr. and 130gr. in 6.5mm), but they will not handle hitting a big bone the same as a heavier bullet will and they do not have that major "hit" that the heavier bullets do. If I had to shoot a moose tomorrow with my 6.5x55, I would do so without too many reservations, but I am looking forward and anticipating heavier game and trying to pick a rifle that will do for years.

BCSteve (I think it was) did a huge 6.5mm bullet test, with the 130gr. TSX being the top penetrator, besting even the 160gr. RN. Very impressive performance for the TSX bullets.

Mark
 
If you're looking for some close to medium range knockdown authority, I would get a .375 H&H or Ruger and load some 270gr TSX bullets. Shoots plenty flat to hit out to 350 yards, and the moose and elk will definitely respond.

It's a definite step up in power from the 6.5, and isn't too bad on the shoulder. I think the 6.5 and the .375 would make a great 2-gun battery for NA.

If it's power you want, then power you shall receive :D
 
Demonical said:
I've hunted with the .338WM since 1990 and shot a fair share of moose, black bear etc... with it. My primary bullet for the majority has been the 225gr Nosler Partition. It is no handicap! In fact the moose that I did shoot with the 250gr Nosler Partitions didn't die any faster or any more dramatically.

In fact, I think the 225gr Nosler Partition is the single best bullet available for the .338WM.
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you and i definately differ on that point- the 275 grain speer was the GREATEST bullet ever made for the 338- all the whomp and stomp of the 250 with better s/d and b/c as well- but you can't get them anymore- s/d was .348, b/c was .456- and only 15 fps slower- and i've had one since 85
 
IMHO the .338 Win Mag is a step above any of the .300s; I've owned a couple of .338s and the the .300 mag category I've owned the Winchester, Weatherby and Norma versions. For the tough shots and in areas where there are big critters that you would want to stop quickly the extra weight and frontal area the .338 is better. Keep in mind that the difference between the .308" and .338" is very similar to the difference between the .277" (.270 Win.) and the .308".

There has been quite a bit of talk lately about light for caliber TSX and I've been thinking about that. The fact is that while the lighter TSX may have the penetration of a heavier slower bullet, the impact of a larger heavier bullet simply must send a larger shock to the animal. I have absolutely no scientific proof of this, and I think you would really need a large sample size to come to a reasonable conclusion (if it was possible, as there are som many variables).

The recoil on a well stocked .338 WM is quite reasonable and in fact to me it is more comfortable to shoot than a Mk V in .300 Wby. The cost of shooting is, if you reload, is similar for both.

Having said all of that I have found that the .300 WM is a very effective cartridge. I load it with 220gr Nosler Partitions to 2850fps. Between myself and a friend who uses the same combo we have shot many moose, deer, elk, black bears and he has also shot 3 grizzlies.

I am going to load up some 300gr Woodleighs and 275gr A-Frames in my brother's .338 WM...:)
 
I can't think of too many .338 bullets that I wouldn't shoot a moose with. Even the BT's would be OK at the right velocity. Used a 225 TSX last fall, and 210 TTSX are on the menu next...:)
 
Your loads listed for 338 win mag are a bit light. I shoot Gamekings at 2750 fps in my 338 (not a hot load either), and I find there's really not much similarity between a 338 win mag and a 300 winmag/300 WSM. 600 ft lbs more energy with the 338 is a lot. I would only use light bullets in a 338 if I was shooting smaller animals at longer ranges and specifically trying to adjust for minimal bullet drop. Otherwise 250's and up are the way to go.

Here's more realistic

Ballistics Table in Yards

338 win mag 250 gr., .565 B.C. www.hornady.com

Range (yards) Muzzle 50 100 200 300 400 500
Velocity (fps) 2750 2670 2591 2437 2288 2145 2007
Energy (ft.-lb.) 4198 3956 3726 3296 2907 2554 2235
Trajectory -1.5 0.8 1.8 0.0 -7.7 -22.0 -43.9
Come Up in MOA -1.5 -1.5 -1.7 0.0 2.4 5.3 8.4



Ballistics Table in Yards

300 wsm 180 gr., .501 B.C. www.hornady.com

Range (yards) Muzzle 50 100 200 300 400 500
Velocity (fps) 3000 2904 2810 2629 2454 2286 2125
Energy (ft.-lb.) 3597 3371 3157 2762 2407 2089 1805
Trajectory -1.5 0.5 1.4 0.0 -6.5 -18.7 -37.6
Come Up in MOA -1.5 -0.9 -1.4 0.0 2.1 4.5 7.2

PS - You can get the job done with both, but there is a clear difference between the 338 win mag and the 300 WSM, no doubt about it!
 
1899 said:
The fact is that while the lighter TSX may have the penetration of a heavier slower bullet, the impact of a larger heavier bullet simply must send a larger shock to the animal.
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I believe this as well. I think it is similar to the .45 vs. 9mm debate, where the 9mm has lots of energy, but the .45 hits harder and stops better despite not having the big energy numbers. A big slug just seems to hit harder than its numbers would indicate.

Mark
 
Northman999 said:
Your loads listed for 338 win mag are a bit light. I shoot Gamekings at 2750 fps in my 338 (not a hot load either), and I find there's really not much similarity between a 338 win mag and a 300 winmag/300 WSM.
Click to expand...

I was wondering about that. I was using the Hornady manual and the Hodgdon online manual and they say 225gr. @ 2800fps and 250gr. @ 2600fps are max loads. Both on 24" barrels if you are using different.

Where did you find a 250gr. bullet with a BC of .565 in the Hornady listings? The spire point 250gr. shows a BC of .431 and the RN is way less than that.

Thanks for all the info, gentlemen. I think I will beg a 338 test drive somewhere and see what I think of the recoil, but I am leaning to the 338WM to give me what I am looking for. The combination of 6.5x55 and .338WM should cover all the game I can conceive of ever hunting unless I somehow swing a trip to Africa before I die.

Mark
 
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