357/38spl for a bush gun
- Thread starter snowsniper8
- Start date
bobjoe: I've never heard that one before, a round with less surface area then a .44 makes it better? As well as the .357-158gr. is faster?
My take on it is that the .44 can fire bullets up to 350grs. and down to 180grs. at much higher speeds then the .357(though not the 300+ gr. ones). It all adds up to double or more punch for the .44 Mag. on paper and even more in the field.
well i live in canada. we cant just go into a gun shop and pick up a handgun in 10 minutes. you need all the right paper work, a carrying case, lock. then we cant even hunt with them eather. the main reason i want the 357 is it can take small game with the 38's and large game with the 357's. its very rare up here to a bear attack but its a just in case rifle! i was also conserdiring a 22lr but if i run into a 400 puond blackbear its not gona do. even the 357 will take a couple shots if the suckers charging you. StoryTime: a bunch of my buddies were out deer hunting up north and two guys jumped a huge sow with two cubs. the sow charged them and one guy put two 30-30 rounds into the bears chest befor it stoped charging. crazy eh.
Applefarmer
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Lime Stone City
Get a pump action 12 ga. 3" slugs for Bear and 2 3/4" #4 for rabbit. Mossberg 500 Amercian Field Combo , 28" BBL WITH FIXED MODIFIED CHOKE, 18-1/2" BBL WITH FIXED CYLINDER CHOKE, SYNTHETIC STOCK, 5-SHOT TUBULAR MAGAZINE $325 about plus tax. For just hikes, the 18.5" will do you. There are other combos all reasonably priced. Now you have a Deer gun, Moose gun, grouse gun, rabbit gun, truck gun, fun gun.
I hate seeing 'news' stories like this one: They don't give enough information to indicate why the jury decided that one expert's testimony (it was a wolf kill) was valued over the other expert's testimony (it was a bear kill, and wolves were just taking advantage of the kill). Without more detail, for me this doesn't count as evidence that wolf attacks occur. I'd be really interested to read the full report, actually.
As prosper noted though, a lack of evidence (bodies not recovered, for example) does not mean that wolf attacks don't happen. I'm not going to turn my back on any predator in the class of wolf/bear/cougar.
Also, I've been informed that bears DO occasionally get up and stretch their legs in the dead of winter. Very rare, and probably not worth worrying about, but not entirely impossible.
To the OP, and along the lines of what Boomer said: If defense is a serious consideration, then get a serious defensive long gun. This is something one should not compromise on. If defense is not a serious consideration, then don't distract yourself from the primary application (plinking, small game, and/or deer).
It was in winter and the bears were hibernating at that time,also no bear tracks but i've heard bears are related to pigs and i've heard the expression when pigs fly so maybe thats why no tracks in the snow.There was also the female teacher killed in alaska not that long ago as well.
Bears do wander around in the winter,especially grizzlies but they all leave tracks in the snow.
I can agree that the 44 has a better bullet range. In my experience a .357 makes a smaller hole thus less resistance with wind ect. Yes the 44 can get light bullets going fast but isn't the point of the 44 to have heavier bullets? But I have my 158 gr bullets going 1900 fps out of my 20" barrel. As I said IMO it's better. When I shot my doe with the 357 it penetrated 22". My 30-30 with a 170 didn't get that far in my moose. Both hit the spine. Plus a 44 will loose speed/energy faster. I just perfer a 357 to a 44.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
A .357/190 has a SD of .213. A .44/325 has a SD of .252. Both bullets can be driven at similar velocities from similar rifles. This suggests a ballistic advantage for the .44 given provided both have a bullet shape which optimizes their terminal effect on game, for the sake of argument let's assume a hard cast non-expanding WFN. With the same bullet shape, wind drift, time of flight, flatness of trajectory and penetration of the target all favor the .44. Additionally, when we consider the terminal effects of each bullet, the .44's greater frontal area combines with its advantage in penetration to produce a significantly greater wound volume than the .357, making it the superior game bullet.
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- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
I intended to say that my experience with those cartridges is when they are fired from handguns rather than rifles, not that you should consider a handgun. A .30/30 is leaps and bounds ahead of a .357. When two bullets of similar weight bullet are compared and one impacts at a velocity 50% faster, it will produce greater wound volume, particularly if it expands to half an inch in diameter, even though penetration is typically only 12".
In any dangerous bear encounter which must be resolved with gun fire, successfully stopping the forward progression of a bear with a chest shot is the exception to the rule. Having said that, huge sow black bears are not common and huge tends to be a subjective term.
As i have posted, my druthers would be for a 44 mag/45LC, but just for the fun factor. If you reload, you can get button moulds and load a bullet that weighs around 100gr. for the 45, or load them with round ball which is about 130 gr.
That being said, my father-in-law was a logger, and more than once moved bears out of their dens in winter while working. I have not seen it, but apparently, they have all the agility of a drunk one-legged man with a bad back. And as far as size goes, I'd venture that 75% of bears seen and that attack are under 200 lbs., and that even a "huge" sow wouldn't go 300. I know there are exceptions, but based on the thousands of black bears I've seen, that's my experience. For that size bear, a 357 would be plenty, if your shot placement is good.
That being said, my father-in-law was a logger, and more than once moved bears out of their dens in winter while working. I have not seen it, but apparently, they have all the agility of a drunk one-legged man with a bad back. And as far as size goes, I'd venture that 75% of bears seen and that attack are under 200 lbs., and that even a "huge" sow wouldn't go 300. I know there are exceptions, but based on the thousands of black bears I've seen, that's my experience. For that size bear, a 357 would be plenty, if your shot placement is good.
Snowsniper,
I seems pretty clear that you already know what you are looking for, so go for it, buy one. I have a Marlin in .357 and absolutely love it. My loads are cowboy loads, but still, I am impressed by how it shoots at 100 yards.
That being said, in my honest opinion, I don't think that it is a one caliber fits all. Mine has a 10 shot magazine. That means it can be a very effective bear banger for the first 3 shots. After that, well, it depends on how angry and large the bear is. Personally, if you are looking for some sort of bear protection, I would go with a heavier caliber. There is a lot of big bone and tissue on a bear which compared to the mass of a deer, is pretty substantial. Now there are those whom will write about killing a bear with a .22, a .357 or a .44. Good for them. I personally would not want to rely on that.
However, I can't lose sight of the fact that you also wanted to plink for rabbits and smaller game. The .357 would be ok for that in my opinion. As for the deer, well, they are pretty tough critters. I have seen them run 100 yards or so with a blown out lung cavity (.30-06). I have also seen them drop like a stone (30-30). In my experience, I would think that with the .357 at any range other than inside of 25 yards, it is quite possible that once you hit the bugger, you are likely in for a day of tracking and searching out where it has laid down to die.
I have a 308 bush gun. Light to carry, and a good bear banger for two shots. After that I have four more for which to shoot to kill if necessary (odds, it will not be necessary, unless you don't so your part to back off and leave it alone).
If it were me, go for it...buy the Marlin and enjoy.
I seems pretty clear that you already know what you are looking for, so go for it, buy one. I have a Marlin in .357 and absolutely love it. My loads are cowboy loads, but still, I am impressed by how it shoots at 100 yards.
That being said, in my honest opinion, I don't think that it is a one caliber fits all. Mine has a 10 shot magazine. That means it can be a very effective bear banger for the first 3 shots. After that, well, it depends on how angry and large the bear is. Personally, if you are looking for some sort of bear protection, I would go with a heavier caliber. There is a lot of big bone and tissue on a bear which compared to the mass of a deer, is pretty substantial. Now there are those whom will write about killing a bear with a .22, a .357 or a .44. Good for them. I personally would not want to rely on that.
However, I can't lose sight of the fact that you also wanted to plink for rabbits and smaller game. The .357 would be ok for that in my opinion. As for the deer, well, they are pretty tough critters. I have seen them run 100 yards or so with a blown out lung cavity (.30-06). I have also seen them drop like a stone (30-30). In my experience, I would think that with the .357 at any range other than inside of 25 yards, it is quite possible that once you hit the bugger, you are likely in for a day of tracking and searching out where it has laid down to die.
I have a 308 bush gun. Light to carry, and a good bear banger for two shots. After that I have four more for which to shoot to kill if necessary (odds, it will not be necessary, unless you don't so your part to back off and leave it alone).
If it were me, go for it...buy the Marlin and enjoy.
