357 load in 38 case. Is it safe?

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bobjoe

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The back story. I was loading for my 357 pistols on my dillon 650. Some how i mixed up and added some 38 special brass to the mix. I loaded the lot and was putting them into boxes when I found about 100 rounds that the bullets were sticking out too far from the case. I then reset my seating die to make them sit in far enough. After this was done I went to check the OAL and found it to be too short. Now, I am no spring chicken at loading but I haven't been around forever either. It was only after this point that I found out they were 38 special cases. This actually shocked me as I all my brass is sorted even by brand.

The load I was using is 6gr of unique behind a 158gr swc max for the 357 says 7.5. I know that is load is over max for my 38 ( max being 5.3gr ) and I have them properly labled to make sure that I don't shoot them in the wrong gun. My question is is too hot for the case?

So to overview 38 speical case, 158 gr swc, 6gr of unique, standard primer, bullet seated to 38 special length, pistol is s&w 686 6" barrel. Do I shoot or pull?

Thanks.
 
Only difference between the cases is the length of the brass near the mouth. Unless they are balloon formed cases (I think the 38 is old enough that there could be some around) they are just fine so long as the OAL is the same so there is the same volume inside the case. I would be very careful though so they aren't accidentally put in a 38. I would shoot them ASAP to make sure they don't get mixed up when you forget.

To keep things simple I never use special cases. I don't have a 38/357 but for 44 spec/mag I load both into magnum brass.

*edit*
Oh wait, I missed the part where you said they are seated to 38 special OAL.
I'd pull them personally. You are still looking at 13% above a published max load (6.0 vs 5.3).
 
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Usually you would work up a load slowly so you can see signs of pressure such as flattened primers...... your reloading book, is a guideline. The books over the years, say last 25 have become more conservative as liability has become much more of an issue to the firearms community.

Both my Hornady books, 4th edition and 7th edition are way under 6 grains for that weight bullet. That being said, my Sierra Handgun Reloading Manual 3rd edition lists the very max load with Unique at 6.1 grains but warns USE WITH CAUTION!

I am not the one pulling the trigger so I have nothing to loose. If it were my decision I would load up at 5.7 grains and then sneak up on 6.0 grains slowly looking for signs of pressure in the cases.

I have in the past loaded past the guidelines in the Sierra 3rd reloading manual for 9mm Luger. I was loading a 115 grain JHP over 9.1 grains of Blue Dot compressed, Max in the manual is 8.1 with the same caution for the 38 special. I knew my gun very well, a Glock 17 and I knew not to use that load in any other gun as I worked it up from 7.5 grains. Did it flatten primers.....Yes Sir, but it did not blow cases and I limited my case reloading to only 3 times before discarding the brass.

Good Luck and let us know how you make out.
 
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They are pretty hot, that being said, if they are being shot out of a 357 revolver they should be fine, I wouldn't shoot them out of a revolver chambered in 38 Special though.
 
That load will be even hotter than the same load in a .357 mag case, because of the reduced case capacity. According to Alliant data you are well over maximum. Unique is prone to quite severe pressure spikes when it's compressed or overloaded.

Your call, but if it were me I would look very closely at real data for comparison and if there was any question I'd probably be pulling every one of them. That is a rookie mistake but at least you caught it before you shot it. Would have been easier if you had caught it before you loaded it.

Checking everything twice before you start loading takes less than a minute. But maybe some people like reloading so much they enjoy pulling bullets and doing it over. I like reloading, but not enough to load twice.
 
As for having one brass per gun, that is my plan problem is that I have 3 guns in 357 and one in 38 special. While it is a rookie mistake I have been loading for over 5 years and done thousands of rounds without error. As far as I know it is not a compressed load and my plan was to shoot it out of my 357 gun, not the 38, if I was to shoot it at all. I hate pulling bullets, I always find the most easy way is to shoot them. But I do enjoy my life and face.
 
I'd shoot them in the 686. They're well under a max load for the 357, and while loaded to a short OAL, they'll have a long runup to the rifling.
 
I'd work up a load using the same bullets and powder starting from published max load up .2gr at a time until i reach the load you have made by mistake or until sign of overpressure arise. The in the first occurence i'd shoot them. Or if the worked up load show sign of overpressure below your current load, i'd pull them all.

If it's to much hassle to test it correctly before firing them. Just pull them.
 
Pull them and don't wait to do it. All it takes is one wonky weak case, or one cartridge where the bullet is just a tad deeper than the rest, or your powder measure dropped just a little bit more powder......
You could fire one just for fun and if it is okay the rest are too, right? Wrong. There are just too many variables to go wrong. And if you put them away and fire them later and get them mixed up, or given to a friend.......
Pull them, reclaim the primer and the powder and melt the bullets
 
hatman1793 said:
Pull them and don't wait to do it. All it takes is one wonky weak case, or one cartridge where the bullet is just a tad deeper than the rest, or your powder measure dropped just a little bit more powder......
You could fire one just for fun and if it is okay the rest are too, right? Wrong. There are just too many variables to go wrong. And if you put them away and fire them later and get them mixed up, or given to a friend.......
Pull them, reclaim the primer and the powder and melt the bullets
Click to expand...

Or pull the bullets, reduce the powder charge and repeat the bullets......
 
jdman said:
when you read the info on the 357/38, one of the first things it says is, DO NOT USE 357 LOADS IN 38 CASES!
Click to expand...

But didn't Keith and a bunch of others have their best 357 loads in 38 cases. The act of loading 357 in 38sp cases is fine as long as you work up a load and make sure that the loads won't be shot out of a 38sp gun. As for the op I'd pull the bullets and work up the loads accordingly.
 
A bit more info

It also then became common practice to use such loads in .357 revolvers when those came out. The Lyman Reloader's handbook, circa 1960, shows such loads. They list as a "heavy load" 12.5 gr of 2400 under the 358156 solid bullet and 13.5 gr under the 358156HP. The bullets have to be seated to the second crimp groove to get that much powder in the case. Pressure wise those are top end .38 Special +P+ loads (I am not recommending this just giving some extra info)
 
I have shot lost of similar ammo, until I finally broke down and bought 1000 pieces of 357 brass. I got the Mag brass becasue sooner or alter I would have shot the hot ammo in a 38Spl.

That is not a very hot 357 load and I would not expect any issue in the 38 case.
 
FAQMAT said:
I'd work up a load using the same bullets and powder starting from published max load up .2gr at a time until i reach the load you have made by mistake or until sign of overpressure arise. The in the first occurence i'd shoot them. Or if the worked up load show sign of overpressure below your current load, i'd pull them all.

If it's to much hassle to test it correctly before firing them. Just pull them.
Click to expand...

Bingo!!!!! :)

This is exactly what I would do.

I load .357Mag loads into .38Sp cases all the time. No problem as long as you work your load up carefully and safely.

John
 
How does one shoot just one case of the .38/.357 or .44spc/.44 mag families by just having magnum cases?

The .357 case was .100 inches longer, specifically to keep it from being loaded in old, weaker .38 actions - ditto the whole .44 family? With .38/.357, and a modern revolver, you can load .357 velocity/energy loads in a .38 case, to be fired from a .38. But if you put a .38 load in a .357 case, as suggested above, the cylinder will not close on the case when loaded in a .38. revolver. Ditto the .44's.
 
Use a kinetic puller and just tap them out longer. Reset your seating die and push them back to the 357 OAL. It's still a lot of work, but much less work than dumping all the powder and recharging the cases. Plus it's a sh!t ton safer than shooting them.
 
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