.357 opinions

Somerset Bar

Somerset Bar

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Just to say I'm not at all new to reloading, and usually I just stick to the "high" side of reloading data, but never over max shown (although that does seem to vary from source to source)

Anyway, bought 1000 of these: http://www.bullseyelondon.com/campro-bullets-38-357-148-grain-fcp-hbwc-cp-38hwbc-case-of-1000.html

I want to load them with CFE pistol powder (loving that stuff). I did a few up with 4.3gr, but used regular small pistol primers.

I have succeeded in making extremely pleasant .38 special rounds out of them. Compared to shooting factory .357 it's like shooting a .22
That said, I'm looking more for factor-ish loads than snowflake rounds. Do I have to use magnum primers and will it make that much of a difference?


..also, different topic, but I bought a bunch of lead bullets for 9mm that seem to have a wax ring on them, they shot great, but smoked like crazy, is that the lead or the coating? Just curious...

Thanks for the help :)
 
Mag primers not necessary. Do work up your load from scratch when changing any component. Mag primers can result in pressure differences.

Smoke is not lead. I've shot bare lead and don't get smoke. Just vaporized wax/lube, or maybe incomplete combustion depending on powder/primer/load.

.357 rules!
 
I haven't used the Campro hbwc but do shoot a lot of their 158 grain TC FCP bullets and Hornady 158grain lead SWC. I shoot mostly light 38 loads in 357 cases. A couple years ago I got a smoking deal on 15,000 Federal GM200M primers and use them a lot in these loads and keep my other small primers for 9mm.
You don't need to use magnum primers but in the 357 case I wouldn't worry about. But like any load work it up.
Now there are two groups on this. One will tell you no problem the other will say you will have a 10 megaton nuclear bomb if you use magnum primers.
Smoke is lube burning.
 
The wadcutters you bought aren't designed for hotter loads, there made for 38 target loads. Pick up some 125 gr or 158 gr campro's, and drive them to the max! (Follow your load data). The smoke is the bullet lube.
 
I have loaded those plated bullets to 1300 fps. No experience with CFE powder.

When loading them for velocity, I seat the bullet out about a 1/10th of an inch, not flush.

Start low, work up.

Smoke is from the lube. Some lubes smoke more than others.
 
Rule of thumb : use magnum primers with magnum powders and normal primers with non-magnum powders. I've tried the opposite, and it never ends well. It's kind of obvious/well known that a normal primer with a magnum powder will result in partial combustion or some other crap (I tried CCI 500 with H110 in 357 magnum just to confirm, and it made a mess of partially burned powder), but a magnum primer with a non-magnum powder is equally crap.

When I started developping a load for my 44Deagle, I tried with Tightgroup and a normal (300) primer. It wasn't strong enough to cycle the gun even at maximum load (10grn), so I tried a magnum primer, just for kick. I didn't have very good equipment to measure pressure, but I think it made quick pressure spike, which were way too fast to get the bullet to stabilize, and all 5 of my test ammos made keyholes, and none of them cycled the gun. Other than a real catastrophe, that was the worst possible outcome.

So, to make a long story short, use normal primers with powders like 700X, CFE pistol, tightgroup, etc... and use magnum primers for powders such as H110 and IMR4227. They're the same price anyway.
 
Okay, good to know. I shoot only paper with the .357 (which so many of us do) so I thought I would try the wadcutters. first time using them. I do want to push them a little harder than .38 special but don't want any kind of problems so may just deal with them as a bit weaker than normal. I suppose after 1000 of them I will have figured out if I like them or not :)
 
Somerset Bar said:
Okay, good to know. I shoot only paper with the .357 (which so many of us do) so I thought I would try the wadcutters. first time using them. I do want to push them a little harder than .38 special but don't want any kind of problems so may just deal with them as a bit weaker than normal. I suppose after 1000 of them I will have figured out if I like them or not :)
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When I pull those up on Campro site I can't find any load data for them. Have you talked to them if they have any published data?
 
Just a little info from campro's website; the 38/357 wadcutters have about two thirds less thick copper plating than thier other pistol bullets. (0.0025" compared to 0.008")
 
snooker said:
Just a little info from campro's website; the 38/357 wadcutters have about two thirds less thick copper plating than thier other pistol bullets. (0.0025" compared to 0.008")
Click to expand...

I had based the starting load on the lead 148gr wadcutter, because I knew the coating was thinner, BUT I think I need to go more towards the load date for a JHP (which hogdon has on their site with the cfe pistol). Difference is about 2 grains of powder, which is a fair bit, but right now the rounds are so mild that I have a bit of concern that they won't clear the barrel (only shot two of them).

I will say that I do like the holes they put in the paper :)
 
Somerset Bar said:
I had based the starting load on the lead 148gr wadcutter, because I knew the coating was thinner, BUT I think I need to go more towards the load date for a JHP (which hogdon has on their site with the cfe pistol). Difference is about 2 grains of powder, which is a fair bit, but right now the rounds are so mild that I have a bit of concern that they won't clear the barrel (only shot two of them).

I will say that I do like the holes they put in the paper :)
Click to expand...

I've never used CFE before but my lightest load is 3.0 grains Bullseye 158 campro in a 357 case. Very light recoil, very accurate and have never had an issue in a 4.2" 686. Have gone through 500 of these and working on the second 500.
 
The HBWC bullets you purchased are 148 grain, but FCP or full copper plated. Some PPC shooters have used these plated bullets for target and they work. But they must be driven a little faster, (more powder) because they have somewhat more resistance compared to swagged lead HBWC's.

My experience is that most PPC shooters might have tried them but return to lead wad cutters for most applications, saving the more expensive swagged HBWC's for 50 yard line shooting.

On another side note, smoke is a function of the primer ignition & powder burning in the case. Lubes do add to making smoke too, but lead powder coated bullets & jacketed applications also make smoke without having been lubed.
 
Somerset Bar said:
Just to say I'm not at all new to reloading, and usually I just stick to the "high" side of reloading data, but never over max shown (although that does seem to vary from source to source)
Thanks for the help :)
Click to expand...


"Do I have to use magnum primers and will it make that much of a difference?"

SB, with the above statement you have brought up an important subject which is almost never discussed on the CGN. That is, will what you have been doing, are doing or intend to do, effect your shooting in any manner that you can detect? The point is, if you are doing something in your operation of reloading that you can not detect any difference, in any phase of your shooting, of whether you do it or you don't do it, then why in hell are you doing it?
There are three basic reasons why the bullets from the ammo that we fire don't all go in the same hole. The over whelming reason is the shooter. next in line is the rifle and the least reason, by far, for improving the accuracy of your reloaded ammo, is twiddling and tweaking the ammo itself. Yet the vast amount of shooters spend most of their time working to improve the accuracy of their loaded ammo, instead of spending all that time working to improve their own shooting ability.
 
H4831 said:
"Do I have to use magnum primers and will it make that much of a difference?"

SB, with the above statement you have brought up an important subject which is almost never discussed on the CGN. That is, will what you have been doing, are doing or intend to do, effect your shooting in any manner that you can detect? The point is, if you are doing something in your operation of reloading that you can not detect any difference, in any phase of your shooting, of whether you do it or you don't do it, then why in hell are you doing it?
There are three basic reasons why the bullets from the ammo that we fire don't all go in the same hole. The over whelming reason is the shooter. next in line is the rifle and the least reason, by far, for improving the accuracy of your reloaded ammo, is twiddling and tweaking the ammo itself. Yet the vast amount of shooters spend most of their time working to improve the accuracy of their loaded ammo, instead of spending all that time working to improve their own shooting ability.
Click to expand...

LOL, I am the very last person in the world to blame anything but my own skill as to why bullets don't go exactly where I want them to go. :cool:

What I'm trying to get at here, is trying to get the reloaded ammunition to feel at least somewhat closer to factory, so that I don't get used to shooting p*ssy rounds. As it is, my 686 feels like I'm shooting a 9mm or less, and hot federal .357 factory loads feel like I'm shooting .50AE. I don't need these reloads to buck like a bronco, but I do want them to have a bit more zip, or I might as well stick to shooting 9mm.

As an aside, I have 2 norc 1911s. a commander and a government. The government is old, and unmarked, and it shoots fantastic (for me). I can load up the commander, and my groups open up over 1" at even 5m. I just can't get that gun to shoot right. I have 2 P226's, and I shoot the "regular" one better than the expensive "legion" one. No idea why, it just is what it is (the legion has such a good trigger that I'm just going to work on getting better with it, but that's a whole other story).

Lastly, I also reload a lot of rifle ammo, and at distances of 300m I notice considerable differences in the shot placement, much more than shooter error can account for. I can be doing 1" groups @300 and change ammo and suddenly be shooting 2" groups.
 
I use CFE Pistol for my 9mm loads, and H110 for my .357mag loads, and magnum primers for both (WSPM and CCI550). No issues whatsoever to date. My best results have been with Hornady XTP bullets, but at their price it's almost as costly as buying commercial ammo. I tend to favor hot loads.

I did try CamPro bullets in both calibers and found them markedly less accurate at 100m from a shooting rest (I shoot from carbines/rifles, not pistol). This said, I suspect they're quite fine for pistol shooting at 10-25m, the shooter will make a hell of a lot more difference than the ammo! :)
 
Loading 357 with 2400 and jacketed bullets, I get exactly the same velocities with:
14.4 with magnum primer or 14.9 with small pistol primers.

About a 3% difference.

Incidentally, campro recommends using data for jacketed bullets with their plated bullets (not the data for lead bullets).
 
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