357 revolver length

For a SHTF revolver, I would argue that it would be hard to beat a S and W TRR8. I recently bought one in the EE. 8-round .357, scandium N frame with 5”. Perfect balance IMO and weighs less than a smaller-frame 4” revolver. And since it’s Performance Centre tuned, it’s butter smooth and crazy accurate. Upper and lower accessory rails for optics/light/laser. And a great MadMax look about it that screams end-of-the-world lol. Cheers!

I think you are right on the money, TragicallyHipGrandpa.

Mexico, from about 2010 onwards, was often right on the edge of SHTF. There were motorized bad-guys staking out the gun ranges and there were several attempts to pull over known gun-club members to rob them of their firearms. I knew of people who went through it and survived or even drove out of it, but I was also aware of at least one attempt where the member simply "disappeared" although their vehicle was found.

We favored .357 revolvers that had been remarked to .38 Special (as .357 is prohibited for civilian ownership in Mexico) and registered as .38 Specials. The load we used was the Elmer Keith loading of a 173 grain Lyman (or equivilent) 358490 Lead SWC cast bullet ahead of 13.5 grains of 2400 powder loaded into .38 Special casings.. From 8 inch revolvers this gave us about 1450 fps and sometimes almost 1500 fps out of 8 3/8 inch S&W guns with tighter cylinder gaps of around .004 or .005. From my 6 inch (well, 5 7/8 inch) Model 28 remarked as a Model 23, I could get a nice 1,360 to 1,370 fps out of that same load. We felt this would give us adequate car-door penetration against unarmored vehicles as you'd probably be shooting at a vehicle only feet away from you (after yelling across that you can't hear them, what did they say, what did they say?) and edging over as close as you can get and aiming at anyone aiming at you first -- and then their driver -- while realizing that a one-hand, left-hand shot double action under stress might go a bit low.

My Model 28 (remarked to Model 23 and registered and marked as a .38 Special). With S&W Diamond Targets and a Larry Potterfield green ramp front sight. I still have this gun awaiting my return down in Mexico.
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From my 5-inch barreled guns, either Phil Roettinger's Non-Reg. Mag. (the 2nd last one ever built) or my 627, velocities were around 1,340 fps from both guns. A bit higher or lower depending on the day, but still nice. I still have Phil's Non-Reg. Mag of course, it's quite valuable. I sold the 627 to a friend when I left and were I to replace it with another 8-shooter I would definitely opt for the TRR8, but am thinking on going the L-frame route when I return so I might just go for a 5-inch 7 shooter and call it a day.
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From a 4 inch barrel, like my Heavy Duty, I got around 1,300 to 1,320 fps. I was very pleased with it, and it's power rating. The size is right. It's a bit heavy for concealed carry -- and you need to remember, in a real SHTF situation, you'll probably be shot out-of-hand for being visibly armed off your property, just like in Mexico today. There are no "CCW" permits that mean anything in those situations. Concealed carry means concealed carry, it cannot be spotted. (Which is why I favor my Model 49 snubby in a pocket holster, but then I've actually done this for years on end in public and in warm weather instead of just sitting around speculating about it with a tingling anticipation and wondering what it might be like). By the way, carrying a 627 or Heavy Duty concealed CAN BE DONE, but not in really warm weather. Dillon used to sell a pancake holster that pulls the gun in nice and tight, and Galco had (at least for while, maybe they still do) a decent inside the pants holster for N-frames. I mean, you CAN do it. It's just not all that comfortable and it would be tough on hot days. The TRR8 is a lot lighter than any of my steel N-frames were, so that would help. I carried my 8-shot through a full workday in San Miguel once just to prove I could do it. But it was December or January (long sleeve weather) and I could wear a light suit jacket over an untucked shirt. It worked. I still have this 4 inch Heavy Duty awaiting my return as well.
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As barrel length falls under 4 inches however, your velocity falls under 1,300 fps. To paraphrase Jeff Cooper, taking some license here: "a 170 grain SWC at 1,450 fps would be quite the problem solver. The same bullet at 1,300 is still pretty good. Falling below that, you're not getting what you paid for." The one 3.5 inch Model 27 (not remarked or registered) I managed to test gave us 1,260 fps velocities. A remarked 4 inch Model 19 or 66 is still going to give you 1,300. And it's lighter.
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As for the 2.5 inch barrels, the "Baby Magnums", although they are adorable guns and pleasing to look at, they often are only around 1,120 to 1,150 fps with lots of bark and beller. And flash, and recoil. I'm sorry, but any post-1957 6 or 8-inch K-38 can be loaded to those respective velocities safely with the same bullet (not according to the reloading manuals, obviously, but yes it can be done). So to sum up, I think the 5-inch barrel is probably the way to go so you have enough power for reliable car-door penetration and yet you're still able to conceal the piece if you have to. And the TRR8 gives you all that, plus the lightweight advantage and 8 shots. What more could you want? And it's legal here -- at least, still.

(I spent a pleasant afternoon trying to get a 2.5 inch Model 19 up to 1,200 fps with the 170 grainer and never came close. I did get a Lee 160 grain SWC up to a reliable 1,180 fps. Recoil and flash and concussion were memorable.)
 
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Okay Thanks for the replies fellas ! Feel free to add any more content . I would be wanting the best compromise to be able to tackle the mentioned objectives in my first post .
Thanks !
Leavenworth
 
The obvious answer for a SHTF situation is a Medusa!


Probably not a 4.2" barrel though...

Given our gun laws, I would go with the shortest legal barrel you can get for a SHTF revolver.
 
Okay Thanks for the replies fellas ! Feel free to add any more content . I would be wanting the best compromise to be able to tackle the mentioned objectives in my first post .
Thanks !
Leavenworth

One more to consider that hasn’t been mentioned is the 4.25” Colt Cobra Target. (2nd from the bottom)

It has fantastic sights for target use, legendary Colt accuracy, and best of all, its smaller and lighter than a K frame S&W. They’re a bit bigger than the super small S&W J frames, only the Cobra maintains 6 rounds of 357! The J frames are typically only 5. I find it to be exactly what you’re looking for in a combat ready via 4” holster to a fun and accurate target revolver.

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Too to bottom,

S&W 460Mag 5”
Dan Wesson 44 Mag 6”
Colt Cobra Target 4.25”
S&W Mode 60 5”
 

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Calmex, I think it was you when talking about "Rugerthons" while back, I seem to remember , 44, or 45 are a now go down south?
I have mentioned it before, I know of 38 sp cases loaded by accident with 357mag loads and shot in a S-W 28, extreme loads, gun held up, but the screws started to back out.
I have no clue what the pressures or speed would be.
 
Calmex, I think it was you when talking about "Rugerthons" while back, I seem to remember , 44, or 45 are a now go down south?
I have mentioned it before, I know of 38 sp cases loaded by accident with 357mag loads and shot in a S-W 28, extreme loads, gun held up, but the screws started to back out.
I have no clue what the pressures or speed would be.

Hello. No, .44 and .45 pistols are prohibited for civilian "legal" ownership in Mexico. .45 Colt rifles are difficult to register, but not impossible. .44-40 rifles are fairly easy to register and are commonly encountered. If you buy a .44-40 rifle, and register it, you now have a permit for the ammunition as well. You'll never buy any .44-40 ammo in Mexico but it's easy to reload. If you don't reload in Mexico, you're pooched and should take up golf. If you buy an actual Colt Peacemaker on the black market (there's quite a few around) most of them are not "caliber marked" and are stamped Colt Frontier Six Shooter on the barrel. Get yourself a .22 conversion kit made for the .45 Peacemaker and make the barrel liner fit and go register your Frontier Action Six Shooter as a .22. Then just carry the .44-40 cylinder in your pocket when you go shooting. If you get stopped, you have the rifle and the ammo and your permit and you're legal. Once on the range, you can do what you want. Nobody will bother you. This is common in Mexico with people who have .45 ACP or .38 Super or 9mm 1911's that have .22 conversion kits but they must smuggle the ammo because SEDENA (the Mexican Army) won't register anything in those calibers to civilians.

Well, until recently. Now, a new version of IPSC/Mexico is being formed and the Mexican Army is actually offering the registration of one (1) 9mm Pistol to qualified IPSC/Mexico shooters for competition in the new Latin American Practical Shooting Association -- which I'm told will be Mexico, Guatemala, El Salvador, Panama, Colombia, Peru and Ecuador. I think that's all of them, at least so far. I did a Zoom interview a couple of months back for the Mexican Shooting Federation (which is overseen by the Mexican Army) on exactly this topic. (Damned right I did a Zoom interview, I'm moving back there soon and I want my 9mm too! Maybe the next time I fly in Tegucigalpa, I can have a Glock 19 in my checked luggage. Oh, damn, that sounds so much more exciting than a lousy and nearly useless boot knife). I find it interesting that Canada and the U.S. seem to be doing all they can to tighten the knot around the necks of the Sport Shooting community whereas Mexico seems to be perhaps loosening it a bit? I guess we'll see.

People interested in Mexican Shooting -- the ranges, the guns, the strange rules and laws should check out the thread here in the Pistols and Revolvers section entitled:

https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1942156-Double-Action-Snubby

which was started by Ganderite. It's a long thread, with many photos of Mexican gun ranges and guns and stuff. And always remember, of course, that there are no PAL courses in Mexico. Your PAL, so to speak, will be the required friendly conversation with a Mexican Army Officer -- in Spanish -- who will either sign off on you or he won't when you go to try to register your first firearm. His first inclination will be "won't" so you need to convince him different. The Clubs won't even look at you until you ace this interview -- and if they are going to decline you the Army will tell you that you have to join a Club first before you come to them. But in reality, they're just blowing you off nicely (killing you with flowers, as they say). You need to make a believer out of him. In Spanish. Taking a translator is the kiss of death. Taking a wife or girlfriend is probably worse. So, if you're going to do it, brush up on that Spanish. You'll need it.
 
Thanks, as usual , I don't look at what I type, and said now go, when I meant no go , about 44 and 45 . Thanks again. I read those posts and seen the pictures,a while back, not that I am going to Mexico.
But interesting as hell to read about, as a old pistol guy .
 
As any of you know I’m considering buying a 357 revolver . I will probably only buy one in this caliber as it shoots .38 as well . So my question for you revolver Gurus is this .
What barrel length should I focus on as I’m wanting it for SHTF ,Combat in case of a SHTF senario , Home Defense and possibly Target Competition ? Is there a happy medium ?
Thank You
Leavenworth

4.25" barrel. As many have said, best compromise for your requirements would be a 4.25 for a non-prohib you got velocity and accuracy (longer barrel woulda been nicer), carry convenience (6 incher would be a pain).

You didn't ask but I have the same motivation for owning revolvers. Never ammo picky, probably more reliable than any semi auto, My choice was a S&W 66-8. It was the first almost brand new example to come along, and at a great price. My 686-3 6-incher isn't going anywhere either.

For a SHTF piece, I would prefer an older pre-MIM gun, which I'm reasonably sure has no MIM parts, say a 686-3 or older, or GP100 circa 2008 or older. You just have to buy carefully as older pieces may have issues.
 
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If you are looking for the best compromise go with a 4.2" GP-100 or if you must a 4.2" 686. Used if you can find one would be a 686 No Dash with a 105.14" barrel. I have one and a good friend of mine here has another only his is a bit longer at 105.74". They are both US Custom Service guns. I know of a third USCS gun in Pr. George with a 105+ in Pr. George.

If any of you 12.6 crowd have a US Custom 686 No Dash and it is registered as Prohib it might be worth your while to measure the barrel. These guns were re-barreled by S&W after the initial batch, made specifically under the instructions from the head of the Service developed jamming issues due to the cylinder gap being to narrow. The 686 No Dash are identified under the crane with "Mod" CS to denote the gun was re-barreled.

Take Care

Bob
 
While I have not run into 686 barrels that are over 105, other than the newer 4 1/4", I have had two 39 sa. 9mm "4" guns that where just over the cut off length.
My 4 in model 19-2 smith is right at the 105mm cut off, so it is a 12-6.
Colts seem to be dead on from the ones I have checked.
Some HK P7 series of guns are miss measured, Pre C68 a 1/8 or 1/4 in did not make a difference , like it does after C68.
MIM are not a big deal as far as I can see.
I don't know about the new colts , as I have not seen any.
 
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