.357 sig
- Thread starter hall5d
- Start date
Show me a gun of quality construction and proven reliability that is chambered for it... When it comes to defensive use it is shot placement that trumps all. Calibre, bullet weight, bullet style etc etc are moot points.
TW25B
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
Defensive shooting is not target shooting, you shoot what you can see in hopes that even a peripheral hit will stop the action of your antagonist, therefore it is desirable to put as much power on the target as possible. A large ragged hole puts more blood on the floor than a small clean one, so to say that a bullet's frontal diameter, weight, impact velocity, and so on are moot points is not entirely accurate. That said, I do agree that in a life saving implement, reliability and robustness trump all other considerations.
Price is from $29-35 /box. A bit on the pricy side.
I understand the concepts of defensive shooting. Control, and capacity are far more important than calibre, bullet design, make and model. The statistical average number of shots required to end a a threat is three, regardless of calibre. I will stick to more rounds in a more controllable platform over fewer rounds of a "more potent" calibre.
TW25B
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
If standard service ammunition is observed, there is little difference in the amount of recoil from gun to gun, but there can be a significant difference in magazine capacity. If control trumped all other considerations, the most popular defensive pistol would be a .22, but that doesn't seem to be the case, certainly not among enthusiasts. Choosing a more destructive, deeper penetrating bullet has no effect on either the recoil or magazine capacity of the pistol you already use. The difference in performance though is real. Increased bullet performance could end the fight sooner, reducing the threat to yourself and others, and it will give you greater confidence, a point of some importance in a fight.
If the average statistical number of rounds to end a fight is three, an old statistic which may no longer be relevant, then why are we concerned with magazine capacity? Because, as is so often the case, statistics don't reflect real life, where wolves travel in packs; and large capacity magazines are therefore desirable. Any reduction to the weight, expanded frontal area, or impact velocity of the bullet, will proportionately diminish the effectiveness of the individual round, as well as the confidence of the shooter relying on it to save his life.
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Bigfoot 870
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Nova Scotia
The use of .22lr as a defensive round is neither preached nor practiced for several reasons. The guns and ammo are far from reliable, the cailbre is insufficient for barrier penetration and yes, it has dramatically reduced terminal performance compared to other calibres due to it's very small size and projectile mass. That doesn't however mean that it isn't capable of killing, as it very much is.
You are correct that bullet style/construction has no bearing on capacity and recoil(generally), but to put the lion's share of ones faith behind a bullet as opposed to bullet placement is foolish. If your confidence to be successful hinges on the projectiles performance you've already lost. Stacking the deck in your favour with the use of a reliable firearm with excellent performing ammo is always a plus, but it is absolutely no substitute for skill. If you can't make hits then the rest is pointless. In line with stacking the deck comes a calibre with the greatest compromise between performance and capacity. Broken down further is the compromise between performance and recoil, and capacity and concealability(speaking for the citizen here). The 9x19mm calibre has the best balance between all the above attributes. The majority of top level instructors recommend and carry a 9mm handgun, and the wave of departments switching back to 9mm is yet another clue.
There's a common theme amongst those who instruct and those who have served and/or been in a lethal force encounter. Handguns suck for personal defence regardless of calibre, and shot placement is what mattered most. I know an instructor who spent 30 years in mil and LE in the United States. He has been in half a dozen gunfights and he offered up a couple of interesting points. He said he always felt his gun/ammo wasn't enough and that he wanted something more effective like a rifle or shotgun(during his handgun shootings). He also echoed that shot placement was the deciding factor which determined how long the fight lasted. When I asked him what he prefers to carry his answer was a 9mm pistol(a SIG in fact) and FMJ/ball ammo. His reasoning for his ammo choice is that ball has the best performance through auto glass, it penetrates heavy clothing the best and has the deepest penetration in flesh along with it's reliability to feed due to its shape. I asked why he doesn't carry JHP and he said that it didn't make any difference(he had used it in some of his shootings) if he didn't hit anything vital, and that once he hit something vital(the brain the spine the heart) the fight was over and he couldn't tell if it was the bullet design that made the difference or simply the shot placement.
Magazine capacity is paramount as not all rounds will strike their mark, not all assailants react the same to being shot and yes scumbags run in packs it's simple predatory behaviour, and statistics are the average not the absolute.
TW25B
been there done that...........it is a great round but if you reload and shoot it alot there is a major downside that no one thinks about until it's to late. It is a bittle neck case and everytime you size it the neck grows, then when you least expect it you load a bunch up only to find out the cases are over max length and you have issues, so now your pulling bullets and trimming all your brass. went back to straight walled cases, shoot until they split and then discard and carry on
Probaly cheaper to buy the Sig clone that shoots 7.62x25 then buy a drop in kit for 357sig. Much cheaper ammo to. Also the balistics are comparible.
I would get one of the Canam DA762 before ever picking up a .357sig.
