357 sig

as above #20 , plus the 357 sig design is to put 357mag in an auto . it's a very common cart for hwy patrol because of the penetration , winshields , car doors etc .
 
There are enough 9mm straight walled cartridges that do the same thing as the 357 Sig. They are all novelty as is the Sig round.
 
I don't believe there are any straight walled 9mm cartridges that will fit into a service pistol size(38 super in 1911 or 220 = full size pistol) that come any near .357 sigs performance. Even 38 super gives up 150 FPS to the .357 sig in a similar weight bullet and the .357 sig will drive a 147gr bullet at almost the same speed as a 38 super 124 gr. The best 9mm load gives up 100 lbs/ft of energy to the 357 sig and the 38 super gives up 50 in comparable bullet weights. The .357 was designed to drive bullet weights up to 160 grains, giving more flexibly in loading than any other 9mm cartridge.

As to being a novelty round well... It's in use by the US Secret Service, the Air Marshals, the TSA, ICE, Texas HP and about 50 other LE agencies, they must have missed that part, as they are reporting significant improvements in barrier penetration and terminal effects on bad guys.
 
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I think it's a novelty round in respect of sport shooting in Canada, I won't deny it's real world applications. But walking into your neighbourhood gun store the chance of them having it are slim to none.
 
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I have a M&P in 357sig. I also have one in 40, a couple in 9 and 1 in 45....

357sig ammo can be a little tough to find, but if you keep an ear to the ground eventually you can find it for a reasonable price. Marstar seems to get stock occasionally. Due to the backlog down south it could be a bit tough to order, but when things aren't so crazy wait times aren't that bad.

I recently purchased 2000 rnds for a bit over $630 shipped. IMHO that's a great price! Site sponsors and the EE ammo section are your friends when looking for "weird" calibres.

Brass isn't that hard to find as long as you are willing to wait. Jerry Teo (mystic precision) sourced me 1000 pieces of new win brass for a reasonable price a couple of years back. I waited close to 8 weeks to get it, but it is available......

I find it to be a fairly easy cal to hand load, but then I cut my teeth hand loading rifle calls so no surprises for me there. Lee makes a 1000 progressive press in the cal as well so it's out there. Personally I just picked up a top end kit to go on my 40 press.

I think that if you want one you should pick it up...... But then I believe in the sumlots theory of life, if some is good, lots is better! It never hurts to have another calibre in the stable.....

Cheers!
 
I agree that it's a novelty round but I don't agree with the comparison to 45GAP; that is the ultimate pointless orphan round. It's more like the 10mm.

my knowledge no ballistic testing has indicated superior performance to the 9mm. But I do think it's kind of a cool round, even though testing has not really borne out some of the theories about it. The fact that S&W dropped the. 357 M&P should probably be taken as a warning sign, though.
 
I was always surprised .45 gap never caught on south of the border given how popular glocks are. .40 could have been a Smith and Wesson proprietary round but the glock 22 changed that.
 
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I am not sure why that totally failed...I would guess it's because everyone who thinks .45 is an important magic number is probably also convinced that .45acp is somehow the ultimate defensive round, so the .45 gap just seemed like a neutered .45acp.

In fact it's more of a pointless way to stick a particular diameter projectile into a gun that wasn't designed around it, but that's another story...

Personally the only reason I think the .45acp has any particular utility is the ongoing appeal of the 1911. There's nothing especially exciting about it as a round...fairly accurate, I guess; easily suppressed but that's almost irrelevant given the extremely specific application of suppressed pistols in service calibers...just not really a particularly thrilling round except it's the 1911 round.

Annoyingly the M&P45 is probably the best of the M&P series, making it a tempting purchase, despite being chambered in a somewhat pointless caliber, and thereby prolonging my involvement with the cartridge.
 
I ordered 500 pieces of Starline brass. I still haven't ordered the barrel yet. I really like the ballistics. It looks like a great caliber. I hope to have a 226 as well as a barrel for my Glock 20. I also already bought some from Canada Ammo a while back. Planning ahead.
 
Unless you have some very special reasons for using the .357Sig, it doesn't offer much use for sport shooting. That being said, my M&P started life as a .357 [I bought it during the first Great Obama Gun Shortage] and when I can pick up some white box ammo at a show, I'll run a few rounds through my M&P just for grins.
 
I was thinking that it's pretty much a novelty round as well. But then along comes IRC who makes a lot of great points about it for use in an open class gun. It certainly becomes a valid alternative to the currently popular 9x40 for the same reasons.

For casual shooting I can't justify it for myself. I shoot more than enough to justify reloading to help keep down the costs. And given the rarity of .357Sig brass it means that it would be a constant search to keep it in stock. Also the sharp pressures involved means that brass life would be reduced. For MY situation I'd likely go for 9x40 since I can get all sorts of range pickup .40 then swage it down to neck it to 9mm. Brass situation solved.

But then I wouldn't bother since I don't shoot an open class gun and have zero desire to build one up. So for the stock or 1911 classes I do enjoy there is simply no reason to move to a more expensive and rare ammo option.
 
DONT its a trap!!! awesome round too much per round and hard to find dont bother unless you have mad stax
 
Here in the land Down Under it is our only option of making major in IPSC due to our stupid calibre restrictions we have which dictate 9mm/.38 for everything bar metallic silhouette and western action. Besides IPSC Standard Division shooters it is used by pretty much nobody. As a reloader it is about the same cost as 9mm (brass is harder to find) and no harder to reload.

If I could have a .40S&W or .357 Sig for paper punching comps I would take the .40S&W every day of the week. The .357 Sig is snappier and louder in comparison. Is it a fun round? Yes. If I could use .40S&W instead, would I? Yes. Factory ammo is thin on the ground as well with only one local shop stocking it due to the fact the guys that work there are IPSC shooters. They only stock American Eagle FMJ though.

If I could carry .357 Sig would be an option but in reality the availability of multiple different factory loads in .40S&W (secuirty license holders can have up to and including .40) would push me more towards that calibre.
 
AussieNorinco said:
Here in the land Down Under it is our only option of making major in IPSC due to our stupid calibre restrictions we have which dictate 9mm/.38 for everything bar metallic silhouette and western action. Besides IPSC Standard Division shooters it is used by pretty much nobody. As a reloader it is about the same cost as 9mm (brass is harder to find) and no harder to reload.

If I could have a .40S&W or .357 Sig for paper punching comps I would take the .40S&W every day of the week. The .357 Sig is snappier and louder in comparison. Is it a fun round? Yes. If I could use .40S&W instead, would I? Yes. Factory ammo is thin on the ground as well with only one local shop stocking it due to the fact the guys that work there are IPSC shooters. They only stock American Eagle FMJ though.

If I could carry .357 Sig would be an option but in reality the availability of multiple different factory loads in .40S&W (secuirty license holders can have up to and including .40) would push me more towards that calibre.
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Wait... Aussie gun laws restrict what calibres can be used in competition??
 
Sambaru said:
Wait... Aussie gun laws restrict what calibres can be used in competition??
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Yep. Our handgun laws are broadly similar to yours (10 round mags, be a member of a club) with a few extra pointless restrictions. Our minimum barrel length is 120mm for semi auto and 100mm for revolver so we can have a 4" revolver but not a Glock 17. Glock make the 17A just for us which has a small extension, looks like the restricted Glock 19 does in Canada.

We had the major gun buyback after Port Arthur in 1996 which resulted in removing semi auto rifles and shotguns from pretty much every one. Farmers can still get a semi .22 or shotgun but semi auto center fire rifles for anyone besides government and a few professional animal cullers is impossible. Handguns weren't affected as they have always been much more heavily restricted. This changed in 2002 after a licensed shooter (should never have been approved) killed two fellow students at Monash University which resulted in minimum barrel length, calibre restrictions and ten round mags as well as higher participation requirements and longer waiting periods. From first applying to being able to have your own pistol securely stored in your own safe takes about 8 months if everything goes smoothly but we tell new members to be more realistic and expect 10-12 months. You can still shoot club guns, just can't have your own.

Here target shooting is pretty much the only reason most people can have a handgun and you must be a member of a club and shoot a minimum of six times per year to maintain your license. If you have more than one class of pistol (classes are air, rim fire, center fire not greater than 9mm/.38 and center fire greater than 9mm/.38 but not greater than .45) you have to do an additional four shoots per class. Example is I own a 9mm, .357, .40S&W and .45ACP so I have two classes and have to shoot ten times a year. I could own ten 9mm handguns but I would only have to shoot six times a year as they are all the same class.

As I said max calibre is 9mm/.38 but you can pay ~$80 and get a High Calibre permit to shoot no greater than .45 for metallic silhouette and/or western action. Depending on the club's range approval (regulated on a state/provincial level) you can shoot your .45ACP in other matches but those shoots will not count as scoring shoots as far as maintaining your license goes as only metallic silhouette and western action are approved disciplines. Also, shooting clubs here, like everywhere, have old farts who don't like anything so even if the range is approved for it the committee can still vote to stop you shooting high calibre pistols in other matches and practicing.

Here's a handy chart that has our firearms license classes, what firearms fall into which class and genuine reasons for getting each one (you must supply a genuine reason when applying and "I want one" or "self defense" will result in a speedy rejection). As you can see most fun stuff is NOT AVAILABLE to Average Joe.
http://www.police.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0015/133134/genuine_reasons_table.pdf

Sorry to ramble, was going to give a quick reply but it turned into a bit of a saga :D
 
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IRC said:
There are lots of excellent reasons to shoot .357 sig:

In action shooting you can make major with 9mm bullet without going over pressure.

You can reload major at 9mm prices.

It really drops steel plates.

The bottle neck cartridge is very ballistic consistent. My Standard Deviation is often measured in single digits. With a corresponding increase on accuracy.

In open guns it has significantly more case capacity than 38 super, more powder = more gas = more effective comp.

Much flatter trajectory than 9mm, .40 or .45.

I have 3 guns in .357 sig (STI Tactical, Glock 31 and a 1911 single stack) all with an additional .40 cal barrel. I shoot about 5000-7000 rounds a year in practice or at matches. I find it is easy to load for in a Dillon 650 and very cheap to shoot when you reload. I have a couple thousand starline .357 brass as well as five or six thousand necked down .40 cal case and use them interchangeably without issue. I loose about 3% to neck cracking but its all free range brass left by the police so no big deal.

In my guns I have adjusted my dies to headspace off of the shoulder vice the case mouth which allows me to get a good crimp to avoid bullet set back. This has had no effect on accuracy and I think has improved case life.

If I could only have one pistol it would be in .357 sig!
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He said everything about the 357 sig, I have a glock 31c the most fun accurate gun I have , I also reload neck down 40 to 357 awesome round
 
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