.358 -> How hard is it to find good factory ammo
- Thread starter aomancini
- Start date
Near as I can tell, you've seen one deer killed with a 358Win and most of the rest you used a 30/06. How many moose, bison, and/or bear where included in this survey? Did you guide in the Yukon during this survey?
Seems to me there is a caliber and bullet weight min requirement in the Yukon for Bison. Would the reason for that be a "Fairytale" as well?
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Seems to me there is a caliber and bullet weight min requirement in the Yukon for Bison. Would the reason for that be a "Fairytale" as well?
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- Location
- St. Joe's Island, Ont
Neither SC nor me said anything about your hunting capabilities, were just saying that Ted knows his crap to.
I've got a Savage 99 in 300, 308, 358 ,375, etc, etc and I've taken a deer with all of them. The 358 does make a difference in internal damage. You take a 30-06 150 gr pill and a 358 200 gr pill and theres a bif=g difference, The entry and exit are bigger holes (no question) which makes for a big difference in how far that animal is gonna go.
I've shot deer with 243 Win and the thing just kept walking as if I'd missed it even though I placed two bullets an inch apart in the vitals. Call it what you will a bang flop is ten times better.
I suppose I'm the one who mentionned Buffalo Bill, so that does open the door to discussing Bison hunting!
Now I need to be a Bison guide in the Yukon to comment on this post? Freaken hilarious!!! I can see why this caliber is doing so well and all...you need to be a Bison guide in the Yukon to appreciate it!
That leaves out you, and you...and you...
What a lovely time of the year to ##### amongst yourselves.
Right.....aomancini, if you desperately want a 358 Win BLR - and at least 3 argumentative people here will back you to the hilt on it's capabilities - go ahead and buy it.
But buy it in the knowledge that factory ammo will either be scarce or expensive or both.
And everyone is right; reloading is not rocket science - get over it and have a crack.
If you're that poor at it someone will buy the gear back off you and you'll have more justification to whine about it.
Now, where do I sign up to guide bison hunting?
Right.....aomancini, if you desperately want a 358 Win BLR - and at least 3 argumentative people here will back you to the hilt on it's capabilities - go ahead and buy it.
But buy it in the knowledge that factory ammo will either be scarce or expensive or both.
And everyone is right; reloading is not rocket science - get over it and have a crack.
If you're that poor at it someone will buy the gear back off you and you'll have more justification to whine about it.
Now, where do I sign up to guide bison hunting?
- Location
- Lumby Town!!
Hey Aomancini, you where looking at my BLR 358, sorry I didn't get back to you...Xmas and all you know. My 358 is a real thumper and that's what makes it fun, gongs with a 250 are more fun then gongs with a 180...in my mind anyway. I never used factory with it, just bought the dies, brass and loaded for it. I saw a box of factroy, about 42$ I think...and the factory is underpowered, so I hear. Many of these "older" rounds are underloaded for modern actions and handloading is what brings them alive. I'd only recommend the 358 if your going to handload, otheriwise there are better factory chamberings, like a 338 federal. An issue of Handloader Mag compares the 338 and 358..they are quite close. 338 is a better flat shooter, 358 a better thumper, but apples to apples the way I read it. I wouldn't try and sell mine if I hadn't found something better for my purposes....the takedown option is the cats a$$ for me. I saw you had a SPF on your trade, did you get a 358?
I wonder if the people who use heavier calibers on "really big game" [all over the world] think it "hilarious" or a "fairytale". I doubt it.
I'll take solid, practical, first hand experience for advice anyday.
Merry Christmas .......
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I sold the 12/.308 as no one was interested in a trade ... I have some $$ now and am still doing the homework and math
Here is where I am at ... and for those on the thread I am not too worried about hand loading (I handloaded birdshot as a kid as dad had all the stuff for free) but rather the time required etc.
1. BLR 358 + reloading kit + dies
2. Marlin 444 (run factory 265gr Hor LeverEvolution loads)
3. 338 ME ... disappointed only factory 200gr loads and no real data on rifle as it is pending
Thanks everyone for your thoughts and input ... really great site and despite a bit of bickering I have enjoyed the opinions and ideas
Merry Christmas
AMAN
Actually I left off #4 7600 Rem (pump) in a 35 Whelen, ya your idea seems reasonable but I do wonder about the long action. I have a .308 BLR - would you notice the difference in the field? Maybe, maybe not ... no experience.
350 Rem Mag would be nice too if there was a lever rifle available ... seems the 250 gr loads at 22.7 lbs of recoil is not that bad (model 673 I believe)
Woodsman, first of all hope you had a good Christmas!
This discussion started because of the statement above, and my response.
I was wrong. You have seen one animal shot with a 358, a deer, and it died within a short distance, but what is so hard to understand about the words, "really big game"?
There is no question that there is a difference between cartridge performance on deer and on really big game animals. Deer, black bear, barren ground caribou, sheep, etc. are light and thin-skinned animals. Almost any cartridge that will penetrate and expand will do the job, as you have pointed out. My son killed his first three deer with an ancient 25-35 using 117 gr Hornady bullets at a paltry 2300 fps. All three were one shot kills. One required trailing up, about 50 yards.
Really big game is another story altogether. Not saying that really big game cannot be killed with the 308. Tons of it is killed using it very year, however to say that neither the game nor the shooter will know the difference between it and the 358 is simply not the case. I have personally watched the demise of many dozens of moose, big mountain caribou bulls (which about the size of mature elk) and both bears, and have shot enough of them myself using everything from 270 Win to 375 H&H, that I literally have lost count.
I have seen quite a lot of game shot with the 358 Win. My buddy, Bert, has used nothing but the 358 Win for the past 25 years. My wife is indeed a very fine shot, and has used the 270, 7X57, 308, 30-06 and the 358 over the past 41 years. Believe me when I tell you that a 250 gr 35 cal bullet gives considerably more notice than any 308 load I have personally seen used, including the 200 gr.
Finally, let me say this is an internet forum, not a competition. We are all entitled to our opinions, and hopefully we can always discuss and learn from each other's experiences.
Best to you and yours in 2009,
Ted
Woodsman said:
This discussion started because of the statement above, and my response.
Why not? said:Now, here's a man that has never used a 358 Winchester on big game, or ever seen any shot with one.
There is a very noticeable difference from both perspectives on really big game.
I was wrong. You have seen one animal shot with a 358, a deer, and it died within a short distance, but what is so hard to understand about the words, "really big game"?
There is no question that there is a difference between cartridge performance on deer and on really big game animals. Deer, black bear, barren ground caribou, sheep, etc. are light and thin-skinned animals. Almost any cartridge that will penetrate and expand will do the job, as you have pointed out. My son killed his first three deer with an ancient 25-35 using 117 gr Hornady bullets at a paltry 2300 fps. All three were one shot kills. One required trailing up, about 50 yards.
Really big game is another story altogether. Not saying that really big game cannot be killed with the 308. Tons of it is killed using it very year, however to say that neither the game nor the shooter will know the difference between it and the 358 is simply not the case. I have personally watched the demise of many dozens of moose, big mountain caribou bulls (which about the size of mature elk) and both bears, and have shot enough of them myself using everything from 270 Win to 375 H&H, that I literally have lost count.
I have seen quite a lot of game shot with the 358 Win. My buddy, Bert, has used nothing but the 358 Win for the past 25 years. My wife is indeed a very fine shot, and has used the 270, 7X57, 308, 30-06 and the 358 over the past 41 years. Believe me when I tell you that a 250 gr 35 cal bullet gives considerably more notice than any 308 load I have personally seen used, including the 200 gr.
Finally, let me say this is an internet forum, not a competition. We are all entitled to our opinions, and hopefully we can always discuss and learn from each other's experiences.
Best to you and yours in 2009,
Ted
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Go for it! If you can find one, they are the best rifle/caliber pick on the list and you can get factory ammo as well. Post a WTB on the EE and see what happens.
The long acton BLRs are quite a bit heavier and longer than the shorter 308 type action.
I'll take solid, practical, first hand experience for advice anyday.
Wise words.
I haven't taken anywhere close to the amount of game as Why Not but I do own 4 rifles in .358 and have used them on coyote, deer and moose with most excellent results.
My only experience of thoroughly inspecting wounds, i.e. during butchering is with wounds from 6.5x55, 308, 30-06, 358, plus various shotgun loads.
And my experience with the 358 is just one shot, from the nearly unavailable SX 250 gr. load on a moose. But I was really impressed. It went through heavy bone, and not surprisingly penetrated very well. But what was really impressive was that despite having the power for more than sufficient penetration through heavy bone, it did not cause a lot of meat damage.
The shot was a followup coup de grace from a little behind and above and went through the heavy meat on the back, the spine, the off-side shoulder and lodged just under the skin. Nonetheless, there was little waste of backstrap, the damage in the immediate vicinity of where the spine was hit of course pretty severe, but there was none of that shock -jellified meat effect that there would have been to about 20 lbs of meat had the shot been from a 30-06.
So I can't put any personal experience behind argument about whether or not the 358 kills any faster - the specific shot placement in my one experience saw to that. But I'll be continuing to use it because of the efficiency-no waste side of things.
RG
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And my experience with the 358 is just one shot, from the nearly unavailable SX 250 gr. load on a moose. But I was really impressed. It went through heavy bone, and not surprisingly penetrated very well. But what was really impressive was that despite having the power for more than sufficient penetration through heavy bone, it did not cause a lot of meat damage.
The shot was a followup coup de grace from a little behind and above and went through the heavy meat on the back, the spine, the off-side shoulder and lodged just under the skin. Nonetheless, there was little waste of backstrap, the damage in the immediate vicinity of where the spine was hit of course pretty severe, but there was none of that shock -jellified meat effect that there would have been to about 20 lbs of meat had the shot been from a 30-06.
So I can't put any personal experience behind argument about whether or not the 358 kills any faster - the specific shot placement in my one experience saw to that. But I'll be continuing to use it because of the efficiency-no waste side of things.
RG
<><
7mmBRmostly
Regular
- Location
- Nova Scotia
noticeably more fun to smack a swinger with .358 gaschecks than .308
358 weigh in
Hi there, I'm not as experienced a hunter as others. However, I have shot deer, black bear and moose all with my model 81 358. I love this calibre and it has worked great on all these animals for me. I can say that it does seem to smack critters with real authority at reasonable ranges with the added bonus of very little recoil. I mostly use 225 Nosler Partitions. I have collected some factory ammo over the last several years but it is becoming quite scarce and way too expensive, so I don't even look for it now.
In my humble opinion, this debate was over as soon as you indicated you did not want to reload because I don't know what other options you have with a 358.
Happy New Year. Art
Hi there, I'm not as experienced a hunter as others. However, I have shot deer, black bear and moose all with my model 81 358. I love this calibre and it has worked great on all these animals for me. I can say that it does seem to smack critters with real authority at reasonable ranges with the added bonus of very little recoil. I mostly use 225 Nosler Partitions. I have collected some factory ammo over the last several years but it is becoming quite scarce and way too expensive, so I don't even look for it now.
In my humble opinion, this debate was over as soon as you indicated you did not want to reload because I don't know what other options you have with a 358.
Happy New Year. Art
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