358 norma custom

[browning525]

After having no success in finding a 358 norma, I have decided to rebarrel a donor rifle and make one. There is an excellent thread on the go already, about handloading info, etc (35 whelen vs 358 norma), and I am curious to get all the forum "gurus" to input into what the proper barrel length and rate of twist should be to maximize the .358 potential.
If it was you building the rifle, what barrel specs would you pick?

 

[Jack Robinson]

I've got a 26" barrel on my custom Dumolin. One word "devestating"

 

[gunrunner8]

After having no success in finding a 358 norma, I have decided to rebarrel a donor rifle and make one. There is an excellent thread on the go already, about handloading info, etc (35 whelen vs 358 norma), and I am curious to get all the forum "gurus" to input into what the proper barrel length and rate of twist should be to maximize the .358 potential.
If it was you building the rifle, what barrel specs would you pick?

23"-24" barrel would be plenty long. 16" twist in cartridge 300FPS faster than 35 Whelen would stabilise even 300gr bullet. I would keep the barrel as thick as posible, no less than .7" at muzle b/c rifle in that cal needs to be at least 9lbs to be tamed a little and to extract maximum accuracy. 358 Norma is better than 35 Whelen only if is accurate on the long shots, say past 300yds. My 2c.

 

[Why not?]

I have owned at least seven 358 Normas over the past forty-one years, factory and custom, with barrel lengths from 26-22 inches.

They all worked fine, game never knew any difference, but 23" seemed to be a nice odd length that no one else had.

Ted

 

[Whelen B]

...but 23" seemed to be a nice odd length that no one else had.

A 23" barrel - you're one of a kind indeed. Probably shoots between the ribs - not like a 22" or 24".

Ted do you have an opinion on the best twist rate from your experience thru the years with the 358norma?

The old Schulz & Larsens had a 12" twist and "a considerable amount of freebore" according to my Lyman 45th ED Reloading Handbook.

 

[dan belisle]

My 358 NM has a 1-14 twist, 24" long. Seems to do the job. - dan

 

[Johnn Peterson]

My 358 NM has a 1-14 twist, 24" long. Seems to do the job. - dan

I haven't physically checked my Husqvarna but going by the info from the reference tables in the Sierra manual edition V, the Husqvaran and Schultz & Larsen are listed with a 1:12". As I've been lead to believe, generally speaking, the slower the twist, the better it handles lighter and faster bullets. Curious, what rifle do you have and what bullet seems to work best for you?

Johnn

 

[RickF]

I had Bill Leeper build a 358 Norma for me about seven years ago. It took some tweaking, but I absolutely love the present rifle.

It is a Pac-Nor barrel with 12 twist. The modern belief is to go fast twist so you can shoot the heavies. The problem with that is with modern super-bullets like the 225 TSX, you don't need anything heavier. Unless you want to load 300+ grainers for the fun of it, 14 is plenty. Even 16 might work.

My 12 twist is super accurate with 225 TSX's. Where the faster twist may cause problems however is if you want to shoot cast bullets. Then a slower twist works better.

As far as length goes, I started with 23 1/2". Just last week however I had Bill chop an inch off it. Keep in mind that the Norma is not an overly large case for a 358 caliber. It likes medium rate powders, and you don't need a long barrel to get great results. A 22" is fine although a longer barrel may balance better and will be a wee bit easier on the ears.

As far as contour, I had Bill turn it down a couple years back to improve the balance. It mikes 0.635" at the muzzle; the resulting balance point is ever so slightly to the rear of the front guard screw. The rifle weighs 8 1/4 pounds all up (empty) and I think it is absolutely perfect. As long as the rifle fits and is well balanced, you don't need a 10 pound pig to tame recoil. Trust me on that one...

 

[Johnn Peterson]

I had Bill Leeper build a 358 Norma for me about seven years ago. It took some tweaking, but I absolutely love the present rifle.

It is a Pac-Nor barrel with 12 twist. The modern belief is to go fast twist so you can shoot the heavies. The problem with that is with modern super-bullets like the 225 TSX, you don't need anything heavier. Unless you want to load 300+ grainers for the fun of it, 14 is plenty. Even 16 might work.

My 12 twist is super accurate with 225 TSX's. Where the faster twist may cause problems however is if you want to shoot cast bullets. Then a slower twist works better.

As far as length goes, I started with 23 1/2". Just last week however I had Bill chop an inch off it. Keep in mind that the Norma is not an overly large case for a 358 caliber. It likes medium rate powders, and you don't need a long barrel to get great results. A 22" is fine although a longer barrel may balance better and will be a wee bit easier on the ears.

As far as contour, I had Bill turn it down a couple years back to improve the balance. It mikes 0.635" at the muzzle; the resulting balance point is ever so slightly to the rear of the front guard screw. The rifle weighs 8 1/4 pounds all up (empty) and I think it is absolutely perfect. As long as the rifle fits and is well balanced, you don't need a 10 pound pig to tame recoil. Trust me on that one...

Initially I was trying or hoping to get a 358 NM in a Schultz & Larsen, to go with the 7x61 S&H and 308 NM I have. Why not on this site offered me this Husqvarna and I couldn't refuse. Besides, it goes well with the 30-06 Husqvarna feather weight I inherited from my Dad.

As of yet I haven't done any reloading for it but I did get two brands of 250gr bullets with it and some load info that worked well for Ted which I'll try out soon. In addition I've also picked up some Barnes 225gr TSX.

Anticipating eventually getting a 358 NM, earlier on I lucked out and picked up seven boxes of 250gr Norma factory loads at a couple of local gunshows. I'm pleased with the initial accuracy results.

 

[X-fan]

I know a fellow with a 22 inch barrel and he still got 2800fps from a 250 grain bullet....The gun is a wee bit barky, but this is a reasonable minimum length for the chamber.

Nice combo actually.

 

[dan belisle]

I haven't physically checked my Husqvarna but going by the info from the reference tables in the Sierra manual edition V, the Husqvaran and Schultz & Larsen are listed with a 1:12". As I've been lead to believe, generally speaking, the slower the twist, the better it handles lighter and faster bullets. Curious, what rifle do you have and what bullet seems to work best for you?

Johnn

Custom built Mauser. Douglas barrel if I remember correctly (it's been a few years. Ok, decades.) I used 250 gr Speers for a long time, they worked very well. I have some 225 gr X and Partitions to try, I just haven't got around to it yet. - dan

 

[Boomer]

After having no success in finding a 358 norma, I have decided to rebarrel a donor rifle and make one. There is an excellent thread on the go already, about handloading info, etc (35 whelen vs 358 norma), and I am curious to get all the forum "gurus" to input into what the proper barrel length and rate of twist should be to maximize the .358 potential.
If it was you building the rifle, what barrel specs would you pick?

I would choose the barrel length that: A) best suits your hunting conditions, B) when combined with the proper contour, produce the best balance and handling possible in your rifle, and C) that you find the most astatically pleasing, providing A&B have been taken care of.

My choice would be a barrel on the shorter side, because when a powerful rifle is chosen, often it is for use in close range situations and possibly in thick cover. Yet the short pipe is of little disadvantage for a longer shot, with the exception of greater muzzle blast.

I like the combination of heavy for caliber bullets and fast twist barrels. A 1:10 will stabilize the longest bullet you will ever be tempted to use, and when that bullet reaches a live target, the faster spin will dampen the effects of precession when the bullet impacts the target, resulting in straighter and deeper penetration.

 

[gunrunner8]

I like the combination of heavy for caliber bullets and fast twist barrels. A 1:10 will stabilize the longest bullet you will ever be tempted to use,

Boomer, you got it all wrong. A 1 in 10" twist is way to slow.... for 35cal 500gr bullets only 1 in 8" twist is hardly adequate 1 in 7" sounds just about right.

 

[dan belisle]

Where do you find a 500 gr .358 bullet? Turn it on a lathe? - dan

 

[Whelen B]

...will dampen the effects of precession when the bullet impacts the target

"precession" - ??? - never heard of that word before. What's it mean? Define please.

Where do you find a 500 gr .358 bullet?

Use two 250s and a drop of crazy glue to hold them together end to end. More than one drop is too much.

 

[browning525]

I am impressed with all the people that own a .358 and all the diverse responses so far. My experience with owners so far is that they simply refuse to give them up, even to the point of getting vulgar when I joke with them about it. (One dealer at the Calgary show, once I heard that he had a .358NM and pressed him on it; his response:..not &*(^%#$%$ likely! It's going in my coffin!)
I do like getting into the thick stuff for elk and moose, although I live on the balda$$ prairie. The gun I build will be relatively light in weight, but I do like the suggestion of rifle balance to consider. (I'll suck up the punishment at the bench to forego packing extra in the bush when it comes to the weight issue)

 

[gunrunner8]

Yes, finely somebody is getting it. 35cal 500gr bullet? two 250s end to end, epoxy will do too.

 

[rem338win]

I'd do a 22" #3 contour. Have the shank done at 2" and have fun.
1-12" twist so you can try those very nice Swift A-Frames......
Something like RickF's. He has built some beauties.

 

[Why not?]

Ted do you have an opinion on the best twist rate from your experience thru the years with the 358norma?

The old Schulz & Larsens had a 12" twist and "a considerable amount of freebore" according to my Lyman 45th ED Reloading Handbook.

The ones I have had built all had 1:14" twist barrels and handled bullets up to 275 gr with no problem at all. The Husqvarnas all came with 1:12 twist. All were very accurate. The Nine Norma just seems to be a very well balanced cartridge.

I do know of one that was rechambered from 35 Whelen. It had a 1:16 twist and did just fine. Not surprising, because the "little" 358 Win will stabilize 250 gr spitzers at only 2200 fps.

If I were building one today, I would probably go 1:12. Never hurts to have a bit extra.

Ted

BTW, I still have some 275 gr Hornadys around here if anyone wants/needs some.

 

[Boomer]

"precession" - ??? - never heard of that word before. What's it mean? Define please.

Precession = yaw and it occurs twice during a bullet's flight to the target. The first time is when the bullet leaves the barrel until it is stabilized by the spin, then again when the bullet impacts a denser than air medium, such as the hide of a big game animal. The longer the bullet and the slower the spin, the more adversely affected the bullet is. If you have ever seen pictures of long Knyoch style solids recovered from African big game, you will notice that some have flattened bases, this is the result of precession, and the tapered design of these bullets prevents them from righting themselves. If you have ever wondered why sometimes the expanded nose of a bullet is pushed over to one side, this again could be the reason.