358 Win v. 450 Marlin as a bear stopper?

I had a light weight 458 Winchester that would unlatch the floor plate occasionally under recoil. My gunsmith fixed the problem in a jiffy. Didn't even charge me. With 510 grain bullets that 7 pound 458 was quite a bit more violent than a 7 pound 450.

A properly designed clip shouldn't fall out... if it does I am sure the problem could be fixed. If after a few hundred rounds at the range it is fine I figure you'd be ok.

The old time African Hunters look down their noses at any lever as they are not controlled round feed. I figure you could waste a lot of time on purely theoretical discussions about what is best. I think the BLR would be a fine choice but admit to wanting you to get one so you can write back about how it is. I have been tempted to buy one myself. The ballistic advantage of pointed bullets, long seating and increased pressure handling seem very substantial.

The advantage of a tubular magazine over a clip seem fantasy based. If attacked by a herd of bear I'd settle for a tube. You can reload without putting anything out of action. 3+1 should do it for one bear though.
 
baumant said:
Anyone have anything to say about the comment regarding the clip falling out? Never thought of that before.
Click to expand...
Yep.

Have had two .358 BLR's for years. Have never had the magazine fall out, and in fact the magazine release makes this kind of hard to imagine. I'll stick my neck out and say anyone this happened to probably didn't ensure the magazine was fully seated when they left the truck.

I feel quite comfortable with the .358 as a bear gun, especially after tipping over assorted moose and elk with it. Have shot one blackie with it (from heartless ambush, the only thing he was threatening was skunk cabbage when I shot him), but no grumbly bears.

Would a bigger caliber be better? Probably; bigger bullets make bigger holes, etc and so forth. However, bigger rifles are often heavier and/or have increasingly greater recoil. Something like a 600 Nitro Express might be an even better stopper but... you get the idea.

If I had to go into the alders after a grumbly bear, I think a short 12 gauge with sabot slugs would be my first choice from what's in the safe. Now we're talking .50 caliber with bullets in the 350 grain class at around 1900 fps... In other words, something somewhat like a 45-70 with slightly greater diameter...

Having said all of that, a BLR in .450 Marlin to play with would both do the job and scratch the itch of having another BLR. Unlike others, I think the Marlin is the ugly duckling of the two.

The .358 is still worth considering - it is not a pussy unless you insist on having every ounce of potential power in a rifle.

Load it with the 180 grain Barnes and it shoots plenty flat enough for 300 yards. Load it with 250 or 300 grain bullets, and it will take care of bear difficulties with lots of energy on tap.

And you can plink and practice for dirt cheap using .358 pistol bullets - my wife burns up at least a 1000 a year just shooting up tin cans and dirt clumps. The result is she's pretty comfortable with that rifle and generally hits whatever she points it at.

Choices, choices...
 
Rick said:
baumant said:
If I had to go into the alders after a grumbly bear, I think a short 12 gauge with sabot slugs would be my first choice from what's in the safe. Now we're talking .50 caliber with bullets in the 350 grain class at around 1900 fps... In other words, something somewhat like a 45-70 with slightly greater diameter...

...
Click to expand...

Rick, If you ever have to do that with a shotgun, do yourself a favour and use Brenneke slugs.

I've tested Brennekes,Foster slugs and Sabots in dry paper medium, and the Brennekes make a better "wound" channel, and penetrate just as deep, if not deeper than the lighter weight sabots.

The Brenneke Rottweilers are like a "hard cast" shotgun slug.

Myself, I am happy to go in with my .375H&H wiht 300gr Partitions. :D

DOne the trick on lots of bears... :wink:
Click to expand...
 
Something no one has mentioned yet is that the Marlin magazine can be reloaded without opening the action.

This may seem inconsequential at first, but if you are really in a tight situation, it is nice to be able to top up the magazine while retaining a live round in the chamber.

You can do this with the BLR by taking the mag out, but then you have only the round in the chamber at hand. With the Marlin, or a Winchester for that matter, you always have the magzine attached, so still have whatever is in the mag ready to go if you need it.

Tube fed levers are the only action that I know of that have this capability.

Ted
 
Why not? said:
Something no one has mentioned yet is that the Marlin magazine can be reloaded without opening the action.

This may seem inconsequential at first, but if you are really in a tight situation, it is nice to be able to top up the magazine while retaining a live round in the chamber.
Click to expand...
On the other hand, if I was in a shootout with a bear, I think I would rather slap another full magazine on the rifle in one go than sit there pulling a round out, feeding it into the rifle, pulling another round out, feeding it into the rifle, etc. Different strokes for different folks, perhaps...

I do know in the CF, back in the day of the C1, we had the handy-dandy charger guide on the dust cover. The idea was you could take a stripper clip and top your magazine off, given a brief lull in the shooting. I never used the thing although they worked fine, nor did I ever see anybody else do it. We slapped a new, full magazine on and topped up partial magazines later. Those of you from those days will remember the hollow rattle heard all over the training area as guys did section battle drills with three or four magazines stuffed down the front of their combat shirts.

At any rate, no matter which method or what rifle, I kind of suspect if you can't get it done with four or five rounds during a charge, I don't think the bear is going to give you time to either top up your magazine or change magazines. It's going to be all over one way or another in a few seconds.
 
the 358, hands down, ive killed 11 moose , three bears,two were grizzlies, and two cariboo. all dropped instantly with the first shot, at all ranges out to 300 yards. the load was 46.5 grains imr 3031 out of a 22 inch bbl at 2350 . this is the best killer that i have ever used, and that includes the 375 h&h. in my opinion it is the best cartridgeyou could have for any of the big game in north america. oh ,yes, that load is with the 250 grain sierra or speer or hornady bullet , they all perform the same. if you hit it , it goes down. right now. i built mine on a 600 remington recoil is no different than the 308.
 
Why not? said:
Something no one has mentioned yet is that the Marlin magazine can be reloaded without opening the action.

This may seem inconsequential at first, but if you are really in a tight situation, it is nice to be able to top up the magazine while retaining a live round in the chamber.

You can do this with the BLR by taking the mag out, but then you have only the round in the chamber at hand. With the Marlin, or a Winchester for that matter, you always have the magzine attached, so still have whatever is in the mag ready to go if you need it.

Tube fed levers are the only action that I know of that have this capability.

Ted
Click to expand...

Except for the tube fed pump... ;)
 
I have BLR`s in both .358 and .450 Marlin. and I would take my .450 over the .358 in any situation. It kicks like a mule but takes out almost anything in its path. The Win 94 Timber is junk, the Marlin is not much better, BLR all the way lads!!!!
 
30/30

just got back from fly in elk hunt in n. bc.one of the guides showed me 2 30/30 he dug out of a sow & a cub that tried to rip cabin door off in yukon last fall.sow fell in her tracks cub ran 25 y.I don't think it matters what you shoot at close range just have to hit them right. robin
 
dont beleive the b.s. about timber carbine porting and accuracy , i have one in ,450 m it will be nicer for your wife than the marlin with its hard recoil pad and no porting, the felt recoil of the timber is much less with full loads than the marlin, as for accuracy maybe you are a little jumpy behind a big caliber,,
 
as for accuracy maybe you are a little jumpy behind a big caliber
Click to expand...

:roll: I've seen baumant rip out 4 rounds out of a .375 H&H in about 6 seconds into under 5 inchs at 25 yards. I think he can take it.
 
358 vs 450

I use a 358 Savave 99 with 250 gr. It has more than enough to handle any approaching bear--I worry more about how straight I can shoot over my shoulder at a dead run!!!!
 
Rick said:
Why not? said:
Something no one has mentioned yet is that the Marlin magazine can be reloaded without opening the action.

This may seem inconsequential at first, but if you are really in a tight situation, it is nice to be able to top up the magazine while retaining a live round in the chamber.
Click to expand...
On the other hand, if I was in a shootout with a bear, I think I would rather slap another full magazine on the rifle in one go than sit there pulling a round out, feeding it into the rifle, pulling another round out, feeding it into the rifle, etc. Different strokes for different folks, perhaps...
Click to expand...

Of course the tube mag holds as much as two or three Browning mags :roll:
 
John Y Cannuck said:
Rick said:
Why not? said:
Something no one has mentioned yet is that the Marlin magazine can be reloaded without opening the action.

This may seem inconsequential at first, but if you are really in a tight situation, it is nice to be able to top up the magazine while retaining a live round in the chamber.
Click to expand...
On the other hand, if I was in a shootout with a bear, I think I would rather slap another full magazine on the rifle in one go than sit there pulling a round out, feeding it into the rifle, pulling another round out, feeding it into the rifle, etc. Different strokes for different folks, perhaps...
Click to expand...

Of course the tube mag holds as much as two or three Browning mags :roll:
Click to expand...

This is my point expressed more fully. You can recharge a partially full magazine without removing it.

Say you have fired three shots and have two left in the mag. Without removing the mag you can fully recharge it, and at any time have the ability to still load into the chamber if the need arises. With a detachable magzine, one you remove the magzine, you are out of ammo until you get another one back in the rifle.

Having said all that, I certainly agree about different strokes for different folks, and a person must go with what they feel is best for them in their situation.

Ted
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom