358 Winchester - too much for whitetail deer?

[SuperCub]

Have you actually tried the Speer 180s on big game? Talking with a few people that have used them on deer, they are telling me that the 180s are holding together quite well at 356win/358win velocities.

Nope, in fact I've not shot anything with a 358Win. All those 250s are left over from a 35Whelen and 358NM in my past.

I guess if I was going to use 180s, I'd just use a 308. Saying that' I would expect just about any std C&C bullet to work well with the modest velocity of a 358W.

 

[Gunoholic]

Have (Miroku) BLR 81s in 308 Win + 450 Marlin but no 358 Win.
They are slick, accurate, well made rifles with superb w/m finish and workmanship.
The 308 Win (the 358 Winchesters parent cartridge) will do anything the 358 Winchester will and I have no need for the latter.
Sold my Winchester model 88 lever action in 358 Winchester a few years back but still have a Winchester model 100 auto-loader in 308 Winchester.
Have all the guns I need and can afford in this lifetime.

 

[SuperCub]

Have (Miroku) BLR 81s in 308 Win + 450 Marlin but no 358 Win.
They are slick, accurate, well made rifles with superb w/m finish and workmanship.
The 308 Win (the 358 Winchesters parent cartridge) will do anything the 358 Winchester will and I have no need for the latter.
Sold my Winchester model 88 lever action in 358 Winchester a few years back but still have a Winchester model 100 auto-loader in 308 Winchester.
Have all the guns I need and can afford in this lifetime.

Yup .... and if you REALLY wanted to get practical, just sell everything but the 308.

 

[remington jim]

I heard that!

Lately, I've been using the newer style Weaver detachable top mount ring called "Sure Grip". I like them over the old style Weaver ring as they have screws on both sides of the top strap instead of the hook on one side and screws on the other. They are easier to get a scope properly aligned and don't seem to pinch a scope like the old ones did. Still are lightweight, strong and offer QD option.

They still SUCK - i threw every set of Weaver rings i owned away ! RJ

 

[remington jim]

Yup .... and if you REALLY wanted to get practical, just sell everything but the 308.

Or replace with a 338 Federal ! RJ

 

[Gunoholic]

Yup .... and if you REALLY wanted to get practical, just sell everything but the 308.

The man's got a point.
There's no way the family heirloom Winchester 94 (pre of course - I won't own the post 64 pot metal receiver 94s that won't even take cold bluing) rifles are going anywhere in my lifetime.
Those two rifles are older than I am and still shoot fine.

 

[hoytcanon]

Yup .... and if you REALLY wanted to get practical, just sell everything but the 308.

Where's the fun in that???

I believe we just dealt with the "just one .30 cal" philosophy earlier on this thread... or was that another thread?

 

[Gunoholic]

Or replace with a 338 Federal ! RJ

Another fringe caliber that will be sun-setting in a few years.
With a few exceptions I stick with the tried and true standards 30-30 Win, 308 Win, 30-06 Sprng, 7mm Rem Mag, 300 Win Mag, 303 BR, 45-70 GVT.
With the exception of a small but loyal following for the 35 Rem (mostly because of the Marlin 336) the 35 caliber rifles were a bust in North America.
A long line of cartridge obituaries: 35 Win SL, 351 Win SL, 356 Win, 358 Win, 35 Whelen, 350 Rem Mag - all dead or on the critical list.

 

[hoytcanon]

Another fringe caliber that will be sun-setting in a few years.
With a few exceptions I stick with the tried and true standards 30-30 Win, 308 Win, 30-06 Sprng, 7mm Rem Mag, 300 Win Mag, 303 BR, 45-70 GVT.
With the exception of a small but loyal following for the 35 Rem (mostly because of the Marlin 336) the 35 caliber rifles were a bust in North America.
A long line of cartridge obituaries: 35 Win SL, 351 Win SL, 356 Win, 358 Win, 35 Whelen, 350 Rem Mag - all dead or on the critical list.

As long as folks reload... not one of those mentioned will die... certainly not .358 Win, .35 Whelen, .35 Rem or .350RM...

And... They may not have met with the commercial success of some of the bread and butter standards... but for those that use them... they have most assuredly been a "success."

 

[two-dogs]

Or replace with a 338 Federal ! RJ

naw, not for me! I thought about it at one time a while back, but somewhere along the line I learned it provides more recoil than it needs to. I'm not a fan of needless recoil. Have at the Federal.

 

[SuperCub]

Where's the fun in that???

That's my point exactly!

 

[SuperCub]

They still SUCK

How so? I don't understand all the hate towards the Weaver system even though it's the most copied system out there.

I do note all the smilies in your quote.

 

[firemachine69]

Brass and bullets are no problem...

It seems I always see more 358 stuff on the shelves than 308...ymmv

 

[hoytcanon]

It seems I always see more 358 stuff on the shelves than 308...ymmv

My LGS is well stocked in .358 supplies... 9.3mm... not so much.

 

[Gunoholic]

They still SUCK - i threw every set of Weaver rings i owned away ! RJ

The Weaver hardware I tried was junky quality with cheap straight slot screws (instead of modern designs with Allen keys) that stripped easy.
I stick with Burris, Leupold, Warne rings and bases.
My whole hunting trip depends on these things so I don't cheap out on the little stuff.

 

[two-dogs]

How so? I don't understand all the hate towards the Weaver system even though it's the most copied system out there.

I do note all the smilies in your quote.

just look'ed all that material, why does a ring need that much length to grasp a scope? They are away longer than they need to be. I hate them dam things, made me sick when mounting them with all the scope roll! P on Weaver rings! P P P I say, P on them!

 

[SHELL SHUCKER]

It ain't hard to set traditional Weaver rings up for correct vertical/horizontal alignment. You just gotta pre-cant the scope a tad opposite the side of screws, then snug the screws down in 1/8 th. turn stages evenly from front to back in a " lug nut" style torque-down sequence to get to get 'em dead on.

It takes only a light amount of full torque on the screws to secure the rings properly to the scope. (10 in. lbs. torque.) For many, the process will no doubt need to be repeated, to get the scope alignment just so, but once there, all that's needed is a dab of Loctite 541 hydraulic sealant on the exposed threads of the screws where they enter the ring bases & let 'em set up over night. I've had great results with this method for many a gun from .22's up to African rated bombers.

Most folks over torque the screws on these rings, many to the point of actually creasing the scope tube.
It takes a fair bit of experience with installs on these rings to get it right, but for the price & clamping
power these units provide, they're hard to beat.

Naturally, due to the width of these rings, they cannot provide adequate for and aft scope movement to
get the best eye relief for folks using compact scopes. No worries though because many makers such
as Weaver and others make ring sets for the shorties.

 

[remington jim]

just look'ed all that material, why does a ring need that much length to grasp a scope? They are away longer than they need to be. I hate them dam things, made me sick when mounting them with all the scope roll! P on Weaver rings! P P P I say, P on them!

YUP that pretty much sums it up - Super Cub will read this here ! LOL RJ

 

[Kevan]

I have rings from most any maker I could find, Leupold, Redfield, Warne, Talley. Brno, EAW, BSA to name a few and yes several Weaver.
They all work well for me without complaint except for an egg-shaped Ruger set and only because I was fresh out of scopes with an egg-shaped tube...

 

[two-dogs]

1/8 th. turn stages evenly from frIt ain't hard to set traditional Weaver rings up for correct vertical/horizontal alignment. You just gotta pre-cant the scope a tad opposite the side of screws, then snug the screws down in ont to back in a " lug nut" style torque-down sequence to get to get 'em dead on.

It takes only a light amount of full torque on the screws to secure the rings properly to the scope. (10 in. lbs. torque.) For many, the process will no doubt need to be repeated, to get the scope alignment just so, but once there, all that's needed is a dab of Loctite 541 hydraulic sealant on the exposed threads of the screws where they enter the ring bases & let 'em set up over night. I've had great results with this method for many a gun from .22's up to African rated bombers.

Most folks over torque the screws on these rings, many to the point of actually creasing the scope tube.
It takes a fair bit of experience with installs on these rings to get it right, but for the price & clamping
power these units provide, they're hard to beat.

Naturally, due to the width of these rings, they cannot provide adequate for and aft scope movement to
get the best eye relief for folks using compact scopes. No worries though because many makers such
as Weaver and others make ring sets for the shorties.

and also it ain't hard to say PIZZ on these crappy ugly pezza o chite hard to install and puke looking rings for more than easy going to install pretty boy deluxe rings with windage adjustments without any looking back. Dam, not sure if that is all in English or not, it's nearing 2 AM, the Bar just closed and it's well beyond my bedtime. Night for now! Gotta sign out! Eyes r gougley.