35cal.com??

[gunrunner8]

I was looking to get on the site recently as well. I was hoping to tell you about my success with RL17, 250gr. Hornady RN-IL, and the 35 Whelen. My results were amazing. 2750fps and 1" groups. From a 22" barrel.

250gr Hornady RN-IL at 2700+fps is rather explosive, and have rather poor BC. 250gr Speer HC is much sturdier at those velocities and also has better BC. 35 Whelen is not about extracting last 5fps of velocity from it. It is about; hunting up close and personal, using heavy bullet at moderate velocity for penetration and stoping power. Any heavy African calibers are plenty fast with 2500fps. If You need speed "to reach out there" then buy 300 mag. To do that with Whelen Your best bet is 225gr Nosler BT ( as strong as 250gr Hornady) and RL15 for 2600fps or so. With BC of .500+ and greater (5/8" at 100yds) accuracy that set up will really shine.

 

[1899]

Nosler'sweb site is showing RL15 and W748 as both giving +2750fps with the 225gr Partition and Accubond. BTW the BC is given at .421 for the AB.

I think that would be fine out to 400 yards, assuming the shooter has the skills.

 

[Whelen B]

250gr Hornady RN-IL at 2700+fps is rather explosive

gunrunner8 - do you know from your experience that the 250 RN-IL bullet is explosive on game at 2700+ or are you postulating. Explosive meaning the bullet breaks up and hardly penetrates - or - that it makes a wide wound channel and often an exit hole. The latter I would not call explosive but call effective. I would be real interested in your hunting experiences with this bullet at such velocity.

We seem to differ in our thinking on alot of this - including our bullet preferences and your "leave it as it's been all along" philosophy. Some ask "can we" improve performance of this cartridge and then others shift the basic question to "ought we". Two very different spheres of inquiry I think - one practical and one moral.

My bolt action 35Whelens are capable 350yd moose rifles or better if sighted in correctly and loaded up to snuff with the right bullet (225s at 2700MV and 250s at 2600MV are fairly routine). That's hardly JUST about up close and personal - though I take your point however - that the traditional 2400MV/250gr combo is good for that close thump and so it is. My pump and semi are usually kept at these more pedestrian levels for the up close stuff you describe - yet capable out to 275yds or so too. But nowadays a standard chamber 35Whelen can become alot more long legged than it has been historically thru the use of select powders and appropriate loads in stronger actions - safely. ReL 17 may (???) be one such powder. Time will tell.

Regards,

Whelen B

 

[gunrunner8]

But nowadays a standard chamber 35Whelen can become alot more long legged than it has been historically thru the use of select powders and appropriate loads in stronger actions - safely. ReL 17 may (???) be one such powder. Time will tell.

Regards,

Whelen B

Years ago I build plywood box that would contain 24" of wet telephone books and couple of 3/4" plywood planks in between them. I am allways on the lookout for best performance out of standart bullets. My test with 250gr Hornady RN and 225gr Nosler BT fired at 2500fps+ showed about 10" to 12" penetration at 25yds with app 40% weight retained. Bullets that have hard time to keep 50% of weight at my test, I call explosive. 250gr Speers HC under the same conditions kept app 55% to 60% of their weight and penetrated 3" to 4" more. I use them both, Hornadys in my 358Win and Speers in my 35 Whelen. They are both good for their intended purposes because over the years truckload of deer and couple of black bears were stoped with one shot mostly. If it comes to "adding legs" to 35 Whelen there is no free lunch. For every particular firearm every time more fps means more presure. Playing with unknown presure beyond what reputable loading manual allows is not my cup of tea. Mind you having Wetherby mark 5 action for instance and using Lapua or other military brass I would be tempted a litle.

 

[Why not?]

That is odd, because if anything, our big game experience is that the Hornady 250 opens a bit slower than the Speer.

Ted

 

[SuperCub]

I was looking to get on the site recently as well. I was hoping to tell you about my success with RL17, 250gr. Hornady RN-IL, and the 35 Whelen. My results were amazing. 2750fps and 1" groups. From a 22" barrel.

2750fps from a 22" bbl. ........ No way.


.

 

[Why not?]

Might do it with Reloader 17. That is pretty amazing stuff.

Really makes the 308 Win shine, too.

 

[1899]

Might do it with Reloader 17. That is pretty amazing stuff.

Really makes the 308 Win shine, too.

For example.....

Maybe it is the powder used in some of Hornady's LM loads.

 

[eric2381]

2750fps from a 22" bbl. ........ No way.


.

I put 5 over the chrony, and the average was 2748fps. I guess 2750 is not possible. Until you try this powder, don't doubt it.

 

[eric2381]

Might do it with Reloader 17. That is pretty amazing stuff.

Really makes the 308 Win shine, too.

I haven't tried it in my 308 yet. I hear it's great for heavier bullets, but I would think it would be too slow burning to use for the lighter 150gr. bullets. But, I haven't tried it yet. I've read great things about it for the 30-06 though. I'm gonna try it in my 338 Gibbs when I get time as well.


I've shot many 180gr. Hornady IL into game with my 300 Win mag. Plenty of 175gr. Hornady IL from my 7mm RM. I found them to be tough enough and penetrated well. They don't perform like a high dollar premium bullet, but they work very well none the less. I don't have any experience with Speer HC.

 

[blargon]

Might do it with Reloader 17. That is pretty amazing stuff.

Really makes the 308 Win shine, too.

Now you've got my attention Ted...

Have you worked with it yet?

 

[Whelen B]

2750fps from a 22" bbl. ........ No way.

I"m taking a wait and see approach and go along with Ted's view - "might do it with ReL17..."

Just checked some of my old range load notes to confirm this - I have done close to that (2702MV corrected average) with that 250 RN-IL in my 700classic 22" tube with ReL15 during load development work. My notes say slight case head engraving and scuffing and head expansion was present. Not my preferred daily driver load cause I would rather run at slightly lower pressures for hunting reliability - but no big issues as far as actually reaching those velocities. I made 2680MV average corrected with Hornady 250s from my 20" Shilen barreled 98 custom with the same powder. A good friend and hunting bud spit 250Speer Grand Slams out the door at 2700Mv with great accuracy and no pressure complications of note from his Rem673 in 350RM using ReL15.

So I'm thinking maybe (?) the slower burn rate of ReL17, its pressure curve and granulation - permiting enough powder in the case - are all working together to produce the higher velocity recorded at reasonable pressures. Love to get some ReL17 myself to try it.

 

[Why not?]

Might do it with Reloader 17. That is pretty amazing stuff.

Really makes the 308 Win shine, too.

For example.....

Maybe it is the powder used in some of Hornady's LM loads.

I haven't tried it in my 308 yet. I hear it's great for heavier bullets, but I would think it would be too slow burning to use for the lighter 150gr. bullets. But, I haven't tried it yet......

Now you've got my attention Ted...

Have you worked with it yet?

Re 17 is a double base powder. That is the first clue. It behaves a lot like Norma 204, although a bit faster. You can read about it here: http://www.6mmbr.com/reloder17.html

200 gr Speers in Win 308 brass and WLR primers get 2650 fps in a Stevens 200 with 22" barrel. You will have to work up your own loads with good case life, no case head expansion, and no expanded primer pockets.

I imagine that 250s in the Whelen case, that holds ten grains more powder, should easily do better out of a 35 cal tube.

BTW, this load makes the 308 legal for hunting woods bison up here. Gets >3000 ft lb, while minimum requirement is 2800 ft lb at muzzle. It is, however, quite a heavy recoiling load in a light rifle.

Working up some more loads. Going to try it with 220 gr bullets before the week is out.

Ted

 

[1899]

The RL17 looks very impressive! I found some other data too that is just plain incredible.

 

[Why not?]

1899,

I started a new thread so we don't hijack this one any further than it already has been.

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=403201

Let's see some of the stuff you have found, too.

Ted

 

[Whelen B]

Thanks Ted

- and BTW - 35cal.com is up on its feet again.

- also I got some ReL 17 this weekend so I should be blowing it out the muzzle of a few 35s soon. I'll post the results on my website and maybe start a new ReL 17 thread in the reloading forum here.

Regards all,

Whelen B

 

[Andy]

I have a 35 Whelen based on a Mauser 98 action with a 24" barrel, and with the Hornady 250gr and a full case of Re15 (59.5 grs) I only get 2550 fps. I'm willing to try, but I can't see how the same amount of slower Re17 would provide any more MV, much less up to 200 fps more.

I'm very interested in seeing what results you get.

 

[1899]

Whelen - I didn't see any BL-C (2) data on your site. My Barnes #1 manual shows it as the fastest with 250gr and 300gr bullets - beating RL15 by 40-50 fps.

 

[Why not?]

I have a 35 Whelen based on a Mauser 98 action with a 24" barrel, and with the Hornady 250gr and a full case of Re15 (59.5 grs) I only get 2550 fps. I'm willing to try, but I can't see how the same amount of slower Re17 would provide any more MV, much less up to 200 fps more.

I'm very interested in seeing what results you get.

Andy, apparently the retardant is throughout the powder granules, instead of just on the outside of the powder. This prolongs the high pressure curve, so the bullet is accelerated by higher pressure for a longer period of time in the barrel. This can be easily seen on a pressure trace.

Here's a quote from the article on 6BR:

"How does RL17 produce so much added speed? There are two main reasons--unique burn properties and high load density. In its chemical properties, RL17 is like no other powder available in the U.S. market. Made in Switzerland by Nitrochemie, RL17 has a unique burn-rate controlling chemical that penetrates all the way through the kernels. Other common extruded powders have only a surface coating. Reloader 17's unique penetrating burn-rate regulator smooths out the pressure curve, allowing RL17 to maintain high energy for a longer period of time."

This results in amazing velocity increases.

"With the popular 6XC case, shooting 115gr bullets, most guys are topping out at about 2980-3000 fps with a max load of H4350 or H4831. In just-completed tests with RL17, German Salazar and Bob Jensen were able to achieve 3211 fps with the 115s at safe pressures. And with 107gr Sierra Match-Kings, German was able to increase his 6XC's max velocity from 3038 fps to a mind-blowing 3311 fps. That's a gain of 273 fps over his max load with H4831sc."


There is a lot of discussion about Re 17 on other boards, which is where I first heard about it. Was going to try it in the 9.3X62 this weekend with some, but The Sportslodge here, is all out as of Thursday. Guys bought it up pretty quick once the word got out.


Whelen B, like Andy, we'll be waiting to hear your results. My bet is it will be good news! Ought to make those 275 Barnes originals really go, eh? You try any of them on game yet?

Good to see your site back up again.

Ted

 

[Andy]

Makes sense. I gotta get some.

As for BL-C(2), it has to be the Rodney Dangerfield of powders (along with H380). Great stuff, but few people use it, and it often produces the highest MV of its burn rate neighbours.