375 H&H recoil and why shortening barrel is good or bad

Guys, I mean no disrespect - please don't take my comments personally! It's merely my preference as a consumer not to neuter the .375 H&H cartridge by using an undersized bore.

And rgv, rudeness aside, I'm stating a fact. residual value IS important to ALOt of people - especially gun adicts who do alot of flipping and horse trading. It's a FACT that a longer gun is more desirable on the used market. Why? Because you can always cut a barrel, but you can't put length back on very easily.

a 26" tube has appeal to everyone, but a 20" tube appeals only to people who want a neutered .375H&H that performs like a .348 Winchester ;)
 
I had a good look at the H+H cartridge yesterday, I am thinking this would be a fantastic Grizzly defense gun with the lower preasures and speed. The longer flatter neck cuts recoil in half (apparently) but still gives plenty of punch, I don't own one but see a use for a Kootenay elk hunt or Buffalo or just for someone who wants to shoot a bigger caliber without as much Rub a535 required after.
 
Amphibious and Claven2, have you loaded for and chronographed a short 375 H&H ? The 375 H&H has a similar expansion ratio as a 308 Win and doesn't need a long barrel.

I've had a 20-3/4" Sako and a 21" 602. 2600 fps with a 300 grain bullet was possible with either. 2500 would be easy with a 20".

Try that with a 375 Whelen or a 348 Win and let us know

Calven2, as far as value, you are undoubtably correct from the point of view of a collector rather than a shooter.
 
How much powder are you burning to get those speeds? Muzzle Blast? Recoil?

and yes I have a .375H&H, infact a Sako, like yours, but I'll keep mine @ 24"

if I really wanted a short barreled bolt action thumper I'd skip the .375 and go strait to a .458 mag
 
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Well this topic has generated a bit of emotion eh? I bet if someone was going to chop down a mauser in 30-06 there would be less of an issue. Its true some folks are purists about the Safari type rifles. I personally wouldn't cut down a 602 but the idea doesn't bother me too much. I mean we're not talking a pre 64 model 70 here. What could be the worse outcome - a ~$1000 rifle becomes devalued in order to have a bush plane friendly boomer? No the end of the world. ;)

I figure if you reinstalled the original front sight and didn't bugger up the barrel band sling mount it might even look OK. I'd be concerned about going too short as its hard to see through a wall of fire for the second shot :eek:
 
78 grains of W760 or H414 in a FC case. A touch more in a WW or RP case

Muzzle Blast? Recoil? Yes. Lots. Of both. Nothing's free :)

a 458 mag is no doubt a better short range thumper, but a 300 gr 375 at 2500+ fps isn;t too shabby, and with a spitzer will do a fair job to 300 yards, where a 458 would be a little shabby
 
It currently has the front sling swivel on the stock. I'm having it removed, the hole plugged and a barrel band sling installed.

This rifle is a big brother to the ZKK600 I have in 30-06 so I am already used to the backwards safety.

The 602 will be an allround BC hunting rifle as well as a camp defense rifle when I'm working. I like the fact that it will be adequate with factory ammo for anything, even the big white stuff for when I am in the high arctic. My 1895GS 45-70 is good for the same task but but only with handloads.

I will be scoping the shortened 602, probably with a Leopold 2-7 V series scope with 5" of eye relief in Warne Maxima QD rings.

Any other scope suggestions for BC coastal muley hunting and the occassional long shot on this .375 H&H carbine?
 
It currently has the front sling swivel on the stock. I'm having it removed, the hole plugged and a barrel band sling installed.
Click to expand...

There you go. I'm sure that pays some penance to the Mauser Gods right there.:)

But are you really sure about 20" geologist? If I was going to do this 22" comes to mind. Would still be pretty handy, little less blast blah bla blah..

On the scope, they sure work nice with a Leupy 1 x 4.5 power. A 2x7 would be a better choice if there's open country shooting in its future as you say.:cool:
 
you're gonna lose about 100 fps cutting off 4" of tube

a 24" H&H can do 2600 fps with a 300 gr. bullet

a 20" H&H *should* do 2500 fps with a 300 gr. bullet

(Id guess average 375 H&H factory load 300 gr. would do 2550 fps)

so...other than increased muzzle blast and a bit more recoil, how would 100 fps loss effect performance of the cartridge??

a 300 gr. Nosler Partition @ 2475 fps (20")

+3" @ 100 yards
+0.5" @ 200 yards (2900 ft-lbs)
-3.6" @ 250 yards
-9.8" @ 300 yards

-----
a 300 gr. Nosler Partition @ 2600 fps (24")

+2.8" @ 100 yards
+1.0" @ 200 yards (3225 ft-lbs)
-2.5" @ 250 yards
-7.9" @ 300 yards


now, seeing how bear encounters are at close range, 75 yards and in, the loss of muzzle velocity is no loss at all, and the shorter length will do nothing but make the rifle easier to handle in close quarters. at the opposite end of the spectrum, shooting a deer at 300 yards, the 20" tube would send the bullet a mere 2" lower of point of aim...

chop it
​
 
todbartell said:
you're gonna lose about 100 fps cutting off 4" of tube

a 24" H&H can do 2600 fps with a 300 gr. bullet

a 20" H&H *should* do 2500 fps with a 300 gr. bullet

(Id guess average 375 H&H factory load 300 gr. would do 2550 fps)

so...other than increased muzzle blast and a bit more recoil, how would 100 fps loss effect performance of the cartridge??

a 300 gr. Nosler Partition @ 2475 fps (20")

+3" @ 100 yards
+0.5" @ 200 yards (2900 ft-lbs)
-3.6" @ 250 yards
-9.8" @ 300 yards

-----
a 300 gr. Nosler Partition @ 2600 fps (24")

+2.8" @ 100 yards
+1.0" @ 200 yards (3225 ft-lbs)
-2.5" @ 250 yards
-7.9" @ 300 yards


now, seeing how bear encounters are at close range, 75 yards and in, the loss of muzzle velocity is no loss at all, and the shorter length will do nothing but make the rifle easier to handle in close quarters. at the opposite end of the spectrum, shooting a deer at 300 yards, the 20" tube would send the bullet a mere 2" lower of point of aim...

chop it
​
Click to expand...

Tod - You da' man! I think cutting it sounds pretty cool too!
 
Thos calcs are for bullet drop. What you need to look at to see the net effect is muzzle energy.

300gr projectile at 2600fps = 4502 ftlbs.
300gr projectile at 2475fps = 4080 ftlbs.

So 422 ftlbs difference. To me that is significant. Up it to a 26" tube and the difference becomes even more dramatic.
 
do you really think any animal in north america, is going to shrug off a solid hit from a 375?? :rolleyes:

also, how many animals have you shot off your muzzle??

the 100 fps velocity gap @ the muzzle has narrowed to 86 fps by 300 yards

that equals to 225 ft-lbs






​
 
Tod

To answer your question:

No animal is going to know hte difference if the barrel is 21 or 26"

A solid hit will take out anyhting, and increased velocity is not going to make up for a non solid hit.:)
 
A 25" barrel with a sight on it let alone with hood too is a ##### to pack through any type of bush/undergrowth. I know they're fashionable for the plains of Africa but we're talking B.C. here. If you've ever actually used a short barreled big bore you know where we're comeing from. Powerwise, I hate to say it but 100 fps means nothing in actual performance on game.
 
You have to be careful once you start saying 'almost.'

Because a 30-06 is almost the same as a 300WM. And a 308 is almost the same as a 308. A 300 Savage is almost the same as a 308. A 30-30 is almost the same as a 300 Savage, and a 7.62x39 is almost the same as a 30-30. The military boys have demonstrated that a 223 is almost the same as a 7.62x39, and we all know the 222 is almost the same as a 223. The 221 fireball, then 22 hornet, then HMR, and so forth. Each difference is slight, but significant.

So a 100fps advantage may not be huge, but it is certainly not insignificant.
 
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