.375 H&H Vs .338win VS. 9.3 X62?

medvedqc said:
the 375 ruger is a step over the 375 h&h.
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Come again? The max 300gr loads for the .375 H&H and the .375 Ruger from Hodgdon are identical, both from 24" barrels. The Ruger is just running a lot more pressure to do it. If you load the H&H to the same pressure levels in a modern action, especially a 4" mag true magnum length action, it gets really, really interesting. There's no need to load that heavy even for elephant, but if you wanted to, you could. I might be a young crusty bugger, but I'll never buy the .375 Ruger's the full equal of the H&H, and we're leaving out the feed qualities, magazine capacity, and ammo availability.

H&H: 300 GR. SIE SPBT H4350 81.5gr 3.600"OAL 2645fps Pressure 49,500
Ruger: 300 GR. HDY RN H4350 80.7gr 3.280"OAL 2660fps Pressure 59,600
 
Toomanyguns said:
Funny you say that. A very effective first shot on a large bear is to anchor it by smashing the hips. I may have seen that rug high up on a wall somewhere recently...........................................
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Apparently quite true. This was a tactic explained in a hunting publication, as related to the author, by a native guide in an area NW of Williams Lake. He was explaining to a couple of hunters he was guiding why, although in Grizzly country, all he was packing was a 30-30. His take was to punch it through the hips to 'anchour' it, then go up and kill it. My preference would be for a little more power but with the success of his years guiding, you can't argue with that success.
 
Ardent said:
Come again? The max 300gr loads for the .375 H&H and the .375 Ruger from Hodgdon are identical, both from 24" barrels. The Ruger is just running a lot more pressure to do it. If you load the H&H to the same pressure levels in a modern action, especially a 4" mag true magnum length action, it gets really, really interesting. There's no need to load that heavy even for elephant, but if you wanted to, you could. I might be a young crusty bugger, but I'll never buy the .375 Ruger's the full equal of the H&H, and we're leaving out the feed qualities, magazine capacity, and ammo availability.

H&H: 300 GR. SIE SPBT H4350 81.5gr 3.600"OAL 2645fps Pressure 49,500
Ruger: 300 GR. HDY RN H4350 80.7gr 3.280"OAL 2660fps Pressure 59,600
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not using the same bullet for that load ... bullets are not equals on the pressure side ...

no problem on the feeding side for mine, mag cap is the same and ammo i can find them where im leaving ... so wrong arguments ...
 
medvedqc said:
not using the same bullet for that load ... bullets are not equals on the pressure side ...

no problem on the feeding side for mine, mag cap is the same and ammo i can find them where im leaving ... so wrong arguments ...
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Mmm hmm... my .375 H&H launches the 300gr TSX faster than either the 'Ruger or H&H listed velocity there on slightly less powder, so you're right, not all bullets are equal. I also don't get excited about 53fps in my favour in this argument and quite honestly will laugh at those who do.

If you want to go nuclear, the .375 H&H will win in a magnum action. The .375 H&H is underloaded for old guns, in a Ruger No.1 or RSM, it's a beast. But we just don't even need that power, mine's killed some of the biggest nastiest on earth at moderate loads. And yes, ammo availability matters, my PH pulled out several hundred rounds of .375 H&H, he hadn't even heard to the Ruger. Since you need to pack your ammo seperately, and getting to Africa took me 4 countries worth of travelling and flights, making sure you can get ammo if you lose yours is a big deal. Your whole trip can turn out to be not what you hoped for if you show up, your ammo doesn't, and you have a gun you can't feed. You typically hunt the next day, and you aren't exactly able to stop at Wholesale Sports and cross your fingers in Namibia or Botswana.

Your argument was that the 'Ruger is a step over the H&H; I laughed. It's close to equal. So close you can't tell a difference when you shoot them. I haul out and strangle numbers to show what I want to too, but in the long run, their both .375's, and the H&H has more benefits I prefer as standard action are a limitation not a benefit in my eyes. I also travel with my rifle, a lot, to 'funky' places. You may not, and for North America as I've said many times, take your pick. But it sure ain't 'a step above' chief, you're kidding yourself.
 
Ardent,

im taking the same arguments as you ...

anyway as for travelling i dont have your experiences about finding ammo abroad ... try that in CAR or Cameroon and we ll talk after ... i ve been in funky places you re not the only one ... i myself live in a funky and dreaming place for many hunters ....

again the 375 ruger in an alaskan combo is a step over any other combos available ... dont kid yourself and give you a favor and try them and report ... i can do that very often and i can insure you that a 375 h&h in a 20" maybe a good idea but you can only dream about it i m not dreaming and can get it over the counter. the weight is too in favor for the 375 ruger.

if some guys used the 45/70 and now using the 375 ruger there is certainly a good reason.
 
Its sounds like many of us lead dull, boring lives and live in crappy places for hunting.
Internet weenie posing. Nobody cares.

On a side note I do agree with you about going nuclear Ardent. My current load launches 300 gr. TSX at 2800ish. You need a full sized action and a long chamber to do that.:)
 
Johnn Peterson said:
Apparently quite true. This was a tactic explained in a hunting publication, as related to the author, by a native guide in an area NW of Williams Lake. He was explaining to a couple of hunters he was guiding why, although in Grizzly country, all he was packing was a 30-30. His take was to punch it through the hips to 'anchour' it, then go up and kill it. My preference would be for a little more power but with the success of his years guiding, you can't argue with that success.
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I was told the same thing by an "old time" griz hunter. I am not a fan of entering the thick stuff to see if the griz died. I shall use the "hipshot" this spring if it presents.
 
Ardent said:
Come again? The max 300gr loads for the .375 H&H and the .375 Ruger from Hodgdon are identical, both from 24" barrels. The Ruger is just running a lot more pressure to do it. If you load the H&H to the same pressure levels in a modern action, especially a 4" mag true magnum length action, it gets really, really interesting. There's no need to load that heavy even for elephant, but if you wanted to, you could. I might be a young crusty bugger, but I'll never buy the .375 Ruger's the full equal of the H&H, and we're leaving out the feed qualities, magazine capacity, and ammo availability.

H&H: 300 GR. SIE SPBT H4350 81.5gr 3.600"OAL 2645fps Pressure 49,500
Ruger: 300 GR. HDY RN H4350 80.7gr 3.280"OAL 2660fps Pressure 59,600
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The .375 Ruger has about 10% more case capacity than the H&H round so velocity should be about 2.5% more for the Ruger all things being equal. So about 65 fps faster. Insignificant and I agree that the two are pretty much equal.

As for feeding and capacity, my FN 98 holds 3+1 as did my Interarms(98) 375 H&H. My FN feeds as well or better than the Interarms. The business of ammo availability in the far corners is a valid point about which I know nothing.

I looked at those numbers posted from the Hodgdon site and they didn't seem right. Why could a case with more capacity need way more pressure to achieve the same velocity as it's smaller cousin?

Then I noticed that the H&H data is using CUP and the Ruger is using PSI. Apples and oranges.
 
Mauser98 said:
The .375 Ruger has about 10% more case capacity than the H&H round so velocity should be about 2.5% more for the Ruger all things being equal. So about 65 fps faster. Insignificant and I agree that the two are pretty much equal.

As for feeding and capacity, my FN 98 holds 3+1 as did my Interarms(98) 375 H&H. My FN feeds as well or better than the Interarms. The business of ammo availability in the far corners is a valid point about which I know nothing.

I looked at those numbers posted from the Hodgdon site and they didn't seem right. Why could a case with more capacity need way more pressure to achieve the same velocity as it's smaller cousin?

Then I noticed that the H&H data is using CUP and the Ruger is using PSI. Apples and oranges.
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Case capacity of the .375 Ruger is actually only 3 to 4% larger than the .375 H&H, but this also is misleading as in order to feed from the mag the bullet intrudes into the case, reducing case capacity. My .375 H&H can easily be seated with the bullet base at the base of the neck, resulting in OAL's just south of 4", fitting a magnum action to a T. I don't bother, as I don't need 2,800fps with 300's. Mag capacity, my RSM holds 4+1, and the African model .375 Ruger Hawkeye holds 3+1.

I like the Ruger just fine, but for me as mentioned, the H&H is the only real option. For North America, people can take their pick, my only objection being to the other fella saying it was a step up! CUP and PSI still work well enough to show what's happening; the Ruger's running considerably higher pressure. Even a couple thousand PSI, if avoidable, makes a difference, and we're talking a goodly amount more than that.
 
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Ardent said:
Camp actually knows his stuff, does it, not an internet weenie. Both you guys get out and use your gear, and both have your preferences.
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But you can't have a flame war without a worthy adversary.:D

To Camp's credit, his RUM is working far less hard to make those same velocities, easier on his rifle's throat, and if he ever takes it somewhere really hot and dusty he won't risk sticky cases.
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Camp Cook said:
Difference is I'm not defending or pushing my rifle/cartridge/load combo like it is the new end all beat all like you even though it easily with far lower pressures out does your pet...

and my velocities aren't theoretical all actually documented velocities unlike the figures you are so happy to spew maybe you could get your hands on some 350gr TSX and prove yourself and good thing Ruger makes the Alaskan tough so you can push your loads to unsafe pressures levels to get close to my reduced loads.
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Interesting to see where this is going. Now we are worried about pressures?

I am sure Barnes used proper pressure testing and velocity measuring equipment when they tested the loads.:)



and while your spewing against my 375RUM your 375 Ruger loads are only marginally faster at higher pressures than the H&H so what is the point of your braying again?
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I'm not "spewing" against your 375 RUM, I actually think your loads are good performance, as they are fairly similar to the Ruger, and I think everyone knows how I feel about RUger (or H&H) performance..;)
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SAAMI Pressures:

375 H&H- 62000 PSI
375 RUger 62000 PSI
375 RUM-65000 PSI


You cannot take a CUP pressure of ###x and compare it to a PSI pressure of ###x

Case capacity (water)

H&H 89
Ruger 91
RUM 108
378 Weatherby 124
 
Johnn Peterson said:
Apparently quite true. This was a tactic explained in a hunting publication, as related to the author, by a native guide in an area NW of Williams Lake. He was explaining to a couple of hunters he was guiding why, although in Grizzly country, all he was packing was a 30-30. His take was to punch it through the hips to 'anchour' it, then go up and kill it. My preference would be for a little more power but with the success of his years guiding, you can't argue with that success.
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There is a former grizzly guide Homo sapien from the Williams Lake area. Best one on the internet he says.
 
Toomanyguns said:
There is a former grizzly guide Homo sapien from the Williams Lake area. Best one on the internet he says.
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I can't recall all the details as it was quite a while back but I 'think' the article was in an old copy Field & Stream. I was on the tools at the time, so best guess, early to mid 80's. It was at work and we were standing by waiting for the lock out of a piece of equipment. I was thumbing through the magazine but took note of the article as it wasn't far from an area I once called home.
 
1640 are small ring Mausers, actually an hybrid form between M/94 and M/98 and carry the legacy of both. Also, my guess is that Win/64 was referring to the 21H / 22F when he named Brno (wich are M/98 small rings).
 
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