Out to out and subtract a diameter?
375 H&H vs 375 Ruger vs 9,3x62
- Thread starter Omenator
- Start date
Out to out and subtract a diameter?
That works but there's a couple issues with it. First bullet holes in paper are never bullet size, so to do it right you need to subtract the actual hole diameter instead of the bullet diameter. The other is you have to do the math, on something that can be measured directly.
Good outrageous or bad outrageous?
Now I can't stop thinking about nipples.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
nowarningshot
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Hey dont hyjack a perfectly good hyjack.
I didn't say *bullet* diameter. I bet there's some way to determine the diameter of the holes in the paper...
Hang on. I'll google for a while and get back to you.
Besides, he measured to 3 decimal places, so he used a vernier calliper. Measure a diameter, zero the caliper, measure the out-to-out dimension, and read the Center to Center dimension directly. No math required.
Guess I'm just thinking like I'm in the shop. I've got a tool that measures in to in, I've got a tool that measures out to out, but I haven't got anything that measures in to out.
I think the "eyeball centroid" we're all criticizing is actually the best way. Use our innate ability to find approximate centres to account for vagaries in print and rips.
Johnn Peterson
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Chemainus B.C.
Good question. Creature of habit I guess. With calipers, I've just always done it that way. 'New' method, lets call to 'nipple to nipple'
.
Last edited:
dgradinaru
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- British Columbia
Heres another article regarding the 9.3x62 that's worth a read.
http://thebiggamehuntingblog.com/2013/09/the-93x62mm-mauser-html/
"Today I want to discuss a lesser known, yet potent and versatile hunting cartridge: the 9.3x62mm Mauser. While relatively popular in southern Africa and in Europe, relatively few hunters in the United States utilize this outstanding cartridge, usually relying on the more common .375 H&H Magnum instead when hunting dangerous game in Africa. While the .375 H&H is an outstanding cartridge, the 9.3x62mm can provide 85-95% of the power (dependent on the exact load) with less recoil and with the added bonus of being able to fit in a rifle with a standard length action instead of the magnum length action required by the .375 H&H. This makes the rifle shorter, lighter and cheaper overall and a great choice for hunting big game all over the world.
Before I really get started, please understand that this article is not about bashing the .375 H&H. It is an excellent cartridge and is very widely used the world over for good reason: it works. This article is merely trying to describe some of the advantages of a less popular, but comparable cartridge and why it may be appropriate to explore the 9.3x62mm in further detail.
Designed in 1905 for the Mauser Model 1898 rifle, the 9.3x62mm soon became very popular among German settlers in Africa. The cartridge rapidly acquired a reputation for providing sufficient power to cleanly take all species of plains and dangerous game in Africa. This, combined with the fact that it was available in a reasonably priced magazine fed rifle, led to an explosion in popularity among hunters in Africa and Europe.
Hunting With the 9.3x62mm
Modern 9.3x62mm factory loads generally fire a 220-320gr bullet at velocities between 2,200 and 2,650 feet per second. However, a 286gr bullet at approximately 2,350 feet per second is probably the most popular load. This load produces over 3,500 foot pounds of energy and is an deadly combination for deer, feral hog, elk, moose, bear, and large plains game species like kudu and eland.
The 9.3x62mm can also work as a great cartridge when hunting dangerous game like buffalo and elephant where legal. Though some countries, like Tanzania, have a minimum caliber of .375 for dangerous game hunting (the 9.3mm is .366 caliber), Mozambique has no minimum caliber and Zimbabwe has a minimum caliber of 9.2mm. While it is the absolute smallest cartridge I would recommend using on buffalo and elephant, the 9.3x62mm will do a great job when using an appropriate controlled expansion or solid bullet that is placed properly. Indeed, many thousands of buffalo and elephant have fallen to the venerable 9.3x62mm over the last century. That being said, the cartridge is not the best choice for following up a wounded buffalo or elephant in heavy cover, but then again, neither is the .375 H&H.
One of the reasons that the 9.3x62mm cartridge performs so well on large and dangerous game is because it penetrates deeply and consistently. This is partly due to the fact that the bullet has a high sectional density (a measure of the ratio of the diameter of a projectile to its mass). All other things equal, a heavier projectile of a given caliber will be longer and therefore have a higher sectional density and consequently penetrate deeper than projectiles with a lower mass and sectional density. As an example 286gr and 293gr 9.3mm bullets have sectional densities of .305 and .312 respectively. This compares favorably to 270gr and 300gr .375 caliber bullets (the most popular weights for that caliber) which have sectional densities of .274 and .305 respectively.
Another advantage that the 9.3x62mm has is the relatively light (for a medium bore dangerous game rifle) recoil that it generates. While the exact amount of recoil generated depends on the load used (more powerful loads generate more recoil) and the weight of the rifle (heavier rifles have less recoil), the 9.3x62mm generates between 65-85% of the recoil of the .375 H&H. For comparison, this is only 20-30% more recoil than a typical rifle chambered in .30-06.
A manageable amount of recoil is very important for hunters, especially those who are smaller framed or who are just more sensitive to recoil. Lighter recoil typically increases accuracy on the initial shot as well as enabling the hunter to make a rapid follow up shot. As has been said over and over again, where an animal is hit is much more important than what it is hit with, so an accurately placed 9.3mm bullet is much more effective than a poorly placed .375 or .458 caliber bullet.
9.3x62mm Rifles & Ammo
Perhaps the biggest advantage of the 9.3x62mm over a .375 H&H is the significantly lower price of rifles chambered for it since the cartridge can fit in a standard length action. Among other manufacturers, Sako, Steyr, and CZ all produce rifles chambered in 9.3x62mm. Of these, CZ produces perhaps the least expensive, yet still excellent quality example in the Model 550 American which starts at $850 MSRP. Compare that to an MSRP of $1419 for a Winchester Model 70 in .375 H&H, $1450 for a Remington Model 700 in .375 H&H.
Additionally, there is a large selection of high quality ammunition available for the 9.3x62mm. Nosler, Hornady, Norma, Federal, Barnes, Remington, Woodleigh, Swift, A-Square, and Prvi Partizan are all major manufacturers that produce bullets and/or loaded ammunition for it. Furthermore, the German munitions company RWS also produces excellent quality 9.3mm bullets and ammunition, but they are very expensive and hard to come by in the United States. These manufacturers produce a wide variety of bullets that range from light, rapidly expanding bullets for use on white tailed deer to heavy, controlled expansion and solid bullets for buffalo and elephant.
With a premium rifle chambered in 9.3x62mm, one could legally and ethically hunt virtually every species on Earth from white tailed deer to elephant. I cannot think of many other calibers that would allow a hunter to pursue such a wide variety of species without breaking his or her shoulder or bank account while doing so. However, in addition to the previously mentioned shortcomings against stopping a dangerous game charge, the 9.3x62mm is not really suitable for very long range shots over about 300 yards like one might encounter on a Marco Polo Sheep hunt. Other than those few exceptions, this caliber fits the bill nicely for the vast majority of big game.
In short, the 9.3x62mm is a fantastic cartridge that can fill a number of different roles for a big game hunter virtually anywhere in the world. Especially for a hunter who only wants one rifle to hunt a wide variety of big game (or needs to crack a safe), the 9.3x62mm fills that need admirably. John “Pondoro” Taylor summed the 9.3x62mm up pretty well when he said in his book African Rifles and Cartridges that “There isn’t really a great deal to say about it. Everybody found it so generally satisfactory that there wasn’t anything to start a discussion.” Is it a perfect cartridge? No, but I think the 9.3x62mm comes about as close as you can reasonably expect to get with a “one size fits all” solution."
http://thebiggamehuntingblog.com/2013/09/the-93x62mm-mauser-html/
"Today I want to discuss a lesser known, yet potent and versatile hunting cartridge: the 9.3x62mm Mauser. While relatively popular in southern Africa and in Europe, relatively few hunters in the United States utilize this outstanding cartridge, usually relying on the more common .375 H&H Magnum instead when hunting dangerous game in Africa. While the .375 H&H is an outstanding cartridge, the 9.3x62mm can provide 85-95% of the power (dependent on the exact load) with less recoil and with the added bonus of being able to fit in a rifle with a standard length action instead of the magnum length action required by the .375 H&H. This makes the rifle shorter, lighter and cheaper overall and a great choice for hunting big game all over the world.
Before I really get started, please understand that this article is not about bashing the .375 H&H. It is an excellent cartridge and is very widely used the world over for good reason: it works. This article is merely trying to describe some of the advantages of a less popular, but comparable cartridge and why it may be appropriate to explore the 9.3x62mm in further detail.
Designed in 1905 for the Mauser Model 1898 rifle, the 9.3x62mm soon became very popular among German settlers in Africa. The cartridge rapidly acquired a reputation for providing sufficient power to cleanly take all species of plains and dangerous game in Africa. This, combined with the fact that it was available in a reasonably priced magazine fed rifle, led to an explosion in popularity among hunters in Africa and Europe.
Hunting With the 9.3x62mm
Modern 9.3x62mm factory loads generally fire a 220-320gr bullet at velocities between 2,200 and 2,650 feet per second. However, a 286gr bullet at approximately 2,350 feet per second is probably the most popular load. This load produces over 3,500 foot pounds of energy and is an deadly combination for deer, feral hog, elk, moose, bear, and large plains game species like kudu and eland.
The 9.3x62mm can also work as a great cartridge when hunting dangerous game like buffalo and elephant where legal. Though some countries, like Tanzania, have a minimum caliber of .375 for dangerous game hunting (the 9.3mm is .366 caliber), Mozambique has no minimum caliber and Zimbabwe has a minimum caliber of 9.2mm. While it is the absolute smallest cartridge I would recommend using on buffalo and elephant, the 9.3x62mm will do a great job when using an appropriate controlled expansion or solid bullet that is placed properly. Indeed, many thousands of buffalo and elephant have fallen to the venerable 9.3x62mm over the last century. That being said, the cartridge is not the best choice for following up a wounded buffalo or elephant in heavy cover, but then again, neither is the .375 H&H.
One of the reasons that the 9.3x62mm cartridge performs so well on large and dangerous game is because it penetrates deeply and consistently. This is partly due to the fact that the bullet has a high sectional density (a measure of the ratio of the diameter of a projectile to its mass). All other things equal, a heavier projectile of a given caliber will be longer and therefore have a higher sectional density and consequently penetrate deeper than projectiles with a lower mass and sectional density. As an example 286gr and 293gr 9.3mm bullets have sectional densities of .305 and .312 respectively. This compares favorably to 270gr and 300gr .375 caliber bullets (the most popular weights for that caliber) which have sectional densities of .274 and .305 respectively.
Another advantage that the 9.3x62mm has is the relatively light (for a medium bore dangerous game rifle) recoil that it generates. While the exact amount of recoil generated depends on the load used (more powerful loads generate more recoil) and the weight of the rifle (heavier rifles have less recoil), the 9.3x62mm generates between 65-85% of the recoil of the .375 H&H. For comparison, this is only 20-30% more recoil than a typical rifle chambered in .30-06.
A manageable amount of recoil is very important for hunters, especially those who are smaller framed or who are just more sensitive to recoil. Lighter recoil typically increases accuracy on the initial shot as well as enabling the hunter to make a rapid follow up shot. As has been said over and over again, where an animal is hit is much more important than what it is hit with, so an accurately placed 9.3mm bullet is much more effective than a poorly placed .375 or .458 caliber bullet.
9.3x62mm Rifles & Ammo
Perhaps the biggest advantage of the 9.3x62mm over a .375 H&H is the significantly lower price of rifles chambered for it since the cartridge can fit in a standard length action. Among other manufacturers, Sako, Steyr, and CZ all produce rifles chambered in 9.3x62mm. Of these, CZ produces perhaps the least expensive, yet still excellent quality example in the Model 550 American which starts at $850 MSRP. Compare that to an MSRP of $1419 for a Winchester Model 70 in .375 H&H, $1450 for a Remington Model 700 in .375 H&H.
Additionally, there is a large selection of high quality ammunition available for the 9.3x62mm. Nosler, Hornady, Norma, Federal, Barnes, Remington, Woodleigh, Swift, A-Square, and Prvi Partizan are all major manufacturers that produce bullets and/or loaded ammunition for it. Furthermore, the German munitions company RWS also produces excellent quality 9.3mm bullets and ammunition, but they are very expensive and hard to come by in the United States. These manufacturers produce a wide variety of bullets that range from light, rapidly expanding bullets for use on white tailed deer to heavy, controlled expansion and solid bullets for buffalo and elephant.
With a premium rifle chambered in 9.3x62mm, one could legally and ethically hunt virtually every species on Earth from white tailed deer to elephant. I cannot think of many other calibers that would allow a hunter to pursue such a wide variety of species without breaking his or her shoulder or bank account while doing so. However, in addition to the previously mentioned shortcomings against stopping a dangerous game charge, the 9.3x62mm is not really suitable for very long range shots over about 300 yards like one might encounter on a Marco Polo Sheep hunt. Other than those few exceptions, this caliber fits the bill nicely for the vast majority of big game.
In short, the 9.3x62mm is a fantastic cartridge that can fill a number of different roles for a big game hunter virtually anywhere in the world. Especially for a hunter who only wants one rifle to hunt a wide variety of big game (or needs to crack a safe), the 9.3x62mm fills that need admirably. John “Pondoro” Taylor summed the 9.3x62mm up pretty well when he said in his book African Rifles and Cartridges that “There isn’t really a great deal to say about it. Everybody found it so generally satisfactory that there wasn’t anything to start a discussion.” Is it a perfect cartridge? No, but I think the 9.3x62mm comes about as close as you can reasonably expect to get with a “one size fits all” solution."
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
You're welcome. My apologies to Mrs Dogleg though.
Johnn Peterson
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Chemainus B.C.
^^^
Interesting and very good info. Thanks for sharing.
Interesting and very good info. Thanks for sharing
.
Excellent thread gent's.
My purposes are outside the norm., being no longer much of a hunter, this light '98, x62 Wagner of mine is the bush carry rifle for the duration.
It being so light and handy ...
Edit: Thanks for the brass Ted. It works very well.
My purposes are outside the norm., being no longer much of a hunter, this light '98, x62 Wagner of mine is the bush carry rifle for the duration.
It being so light and handy ...
Edit: Thanks for the brass Ted. It works very well.
Last edited:
