38/357 Ma
- Thread starter Bigbear54
- Start date
Stick to .38spl loads for .38spl brass. Pressures can spike in the lower volume cases. +P loadings are all you should consider. Your gun and your eyes. Neither should be put at risk.
Take Care
Bob
ps You can always replace your gun....eyes and fingers not so much.
Take Care
Bob
ps You can always replace your gun....eyes and fingers not so much.
hatman1793
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Yes but be careful...
As a general rule full wadd cutter's should NOT be up loaded, even in a bigger beefier frame revolver.
However, if you are using cast lead bullets, say a nice 158 grain SWC, you can juice it up in a 357mag rated revolver. Up to a point of course. You can upload your basic 38 special cases to near +P loads, but NEVER exceed the recommended receipe.
For example, the recommended 38 special full wadd cutter load in 38special is 3.1 grains of WW231. Never increase this powder load. But in a standard 38special case with a 158grain SWC, you can go to 3.5 or 3.6 grains of WW231. Not 3.7. Start out a 3.4 and go to 3.5 or 3.6 max and see if you like it...
As a general rule full wadd cutter's should NOT be up loaded, even in a bigger beefier frame revolver.
However, if you are using cast lead bullets, say a nice 158 grain SWC, you can juice it up in a 357mag rated revolver. Up to a point of course. You can upload your basic 38 special cases to near +P loads, but NEVER exceed the recommended receipe.
For example, the recommended 38 special full wadd cutter load in 38special is 3.1 grains of WW231. Never increase this powder load. But in a standard 38special case with a 158grain SWC, you can go to 3.5 or 3.6 grains of WW231. Not 3.7. Start out a 3.4 and go to 3.5 or 3.6 max and see if you like it...
Depends. Do you also have a 38SPl gun?
If you load some 20,000psi+ ammo in 38 SPl cases then you are just begging for the day it gets used in a 38 SPL gun and causes problems.
The case will handle higher pressures than +P, but it will still LOOK like 38Spl ammo. The reason the 357 case was made longer was to prevent the problem you are about to make possible....
I used to load ammo for my 357s in 38 cases because I did not have a quanity of 357 cases. I recently got 500 of them and now only load 38 level ammo in 38 cases.
If you load some 20,000psi+ ammo in 38 SPl cases then you are just begging for the day it gets used in a 38 SPL gun and causes problems.
The case will handle higher pressures than +P, but it will still LOOK like 38Spl ammo. The reason the 357 case was made longer was to prevent the problem you are about to make possible....
I used to load ammo for my 357s in 38 cases because I did not have a quanity of 357 cases. I recently got 500 of them and now only load 38 level ammo in 38 cases.
ipscgraz
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
As hatman (with the nice avatar !!) says, hollow basewadcutters must not be loaded hot.
You don't say why you would want to do this...???
If you want to shoot .357 loads, use .357 brass.
You don't say why you would want to do this...???
If you want to shoot .357 loads, use .357 brass.
easyrider604
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Greater Vancouver, BC
I load 4.5-4.6 grains 700x under 158 grain LSWC Lee TL in .38 spl cases. They chrono at 1,000 fps average out of my box-stock 6 inch GP100. Satisfying recoil and quite accurate...on a good day I can group 6 shots into 6 inches at 25 meters standing modified weaver hold, shooting Double Action. This performance is definitely over the +P range.
Absolutely no signs of primer flattening or sticky extraction as the cases fall out without need to press the extractor. So next time at the bench, I am going to load a little higher say 4.8 grains 700X. Maybe Unique will deliver the same 1,000 fps+ velocity at lower pressure.
38 spl cases are the same thickness as .357 cases. When the .357 magnum was being developed, Elmer Keith used .38 spl cases. So this means .38 spls brass can take .357 mag pressures.
As Ganderite said, the 357 magnum's case was lengthened so it wouldn't chamber in .38 spl guns.
This is the reason I only own 357s, all I load now are +P 38 (or higher) specials and .357 magnum.
xtremacanuck
CGN Regular
- Location
- Glengarry ON
I load 38s for nice, casual shooting. If I want a bigger boom, I use the bigger case the 357 provides to propel the same bullets. Like was mentioned earlier, your eyes aren't worth risking, and maybe your hands if you make a living with them.
Bingo.
Pressure can spike very quickly and the smaller the case, the faster it can sneak up on you. Pressure signs like primer appearance and hard extraction are just indications, not scientific measurements.
I've essentially switched entirely to .357, even for wadcutters. As a bonus, it's easier to clean the cylinder.
There is a very popular 357 calibre bullet mold made by Lyman, and designed by Elmer Keith. When this bullet is crimped in it's proper crimping groove, the cartridge is too long to work in the cylinders of many well known 357 revolvers, including the original 357 S&W and the Colt Cobra.
Back in the 1970s and early 80s, I think it was, the most well known rebolver writer was Skeeter Skelton, pistol editor of Guns and Ammo. (I think that was the magazine, but couldn't swear to it.) Regardless, revolver shooters of the day virtually hung on every word he wrote.
He gave two solutions for shooting the famous Keith bullet in guns that were too short to handle them, when crimped in the proper groove in 357 brass. He said one could load them in 357 brass, push the bullet in a bit more and crimp on the shoulder of the bullet.
The other method he gave, and the one he preferred, was loading the bullet in 38 Special brass and crimping in the proper crimping groove. Skeeter actually preferred this method in his S&W guns. He loaded them to full 357 magnum pressures and shot thousands of them, as did many, many, other shooters.
At the time I had two 357 revolvers. A Ruger Security Six, which would take the long cartridges and an old 357 S&W, made prior to them naming it the model 27, as it only had "357 MAGNUM" on it.
I shot full power magnum loads with both 38 and 357 brass in them, loaded both ways, for the Smith, shortened 357 or 38 brass.
In the Ruger I ran a test. I loaded the same magnum load in each of the two length cases, crimping the 357 brass in it's proper groove, as well as crimping the 38 brass in the proper crimping groove and chronographed them with an Oehler. There was virtually no difference between the two.
Back in the 1970s and early 80s, I think it was, the most well known rebolver writer was Skeeter Skelton, pistol editor of Guns and Ammo. (I think that was the magazine, but couldn't swear to it.) Regardless, revolver shooters of the day virtually hung on every word he wrote.
He gave two solutions for shooting the famous Keith bullet in guns that were too short to handle them, when crimped in the proper groove in 357 brass. He said one could load them in 357 brass, push the bullet in a bit more and crimp on the shoulder of the bullet.
The other method he gave, and the one he preferred, was loading the bullet in 38 Special brass and crimping in the proper crimping groove. Skeeter actually preferred this method in his S&W guns. He loaded them to full 357 magnum pressures and shot thousands of them, as did many, many, other shooters.
At the time I had two 357 revolvers. A Ruger Security Six, which would take the long cartridges and an old 357 S&W, made prior to them naming it the model 27, as it only had "357 MAGNUM" on it.
I shot full power magnum loads with both 38 and 357 brass in them, loaded both ways, for the Smith, shortened 357 or 38 brass.
In the Ruger I ran a test. I loaded the same magnum load in each of the two length cases, crimping the 357 brass in it's proper groove, as well as crimping the 38 brass in the proper crimping groove and chronographed them with an Oehler. There was virtually no difference between the two.
X2 I agree.
Yes, you can load .38 Special hotter than factory ammo. The predecessor of the .357 Magnum, the .38-44, was simply a high velocity .38 Special load intended for large frame guns.
You must, of course, proceed with caution, since there isn't much data for this sort of thing and you must take care to use this ammunition only in guns of appropriate strength.
You must, of course, proceed with caution, since there isn't much data for this sort of thing and you must take care to use this ammunition only in guns of appropriate strength.
easyrider604
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Greater Vancouver, BC
First of all, this is a reloading forum, so I assume it is OK to talk about some experimenting. If not, the mods can delete this post. Sorry.
I agree with judicious use of caution, but check this link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elmer_Keith
Elmer developed the 357 magnum 75 yrs ago. A reasonably prudent reloader can squeeze a little more than just 38 +P velocities from a .38 spl cartridge in a .357 magnum revolver....it is so much more fun than shooting 38 target loads. It is safe in magnum revolvers for sure. I load both .38 and .357 so I would know if I am stretching the .38 envelope.
The big issue is revolver strength, so if you got .38 spl only revolvers in the house...well you got to take extra precautionary steps. That's the main reason I traded my last .38 spl K-frame. I fired less than 50 rounds in it and while it was accurate, it reminded me too much of .22s.
I agree with judicious use of caution, but check this link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elmer_Keith
Elmer developed the 357 magnum 75 yrs ago. A reasonably prudent reloader can squeeze a little more than just 38 +P velocities from a .38 spl cartridge in a .357 magnum revolver....it is so much more fun than shooting 38 target loads. It is safe in magnum revolvers for sure. I load both .38 and .357 so I would know if I am stretching the .38 envelope.
The big issue is revolver strength, so if you got .38 spl only revolvers in the house...well you got to take extra precautionary steps. That's the main reason I traded my last .38 spl K-frame. I fired less than 50 rounds in it and while it was accurate, it reminded me too much of .22s.
