38-40

[Ont Shooter]

Hey guys
I bought a box of 38-40's for the brass($69), My plan was to reload for an old Winchester 92 I just fired a few rounds to see how it shoots and this is what I got.

I'm not a rifle reloader but have reloaded for pistol lots and have seen many crack after being used over and over again. These are once fired.

What do you guys think?

Thanks OS

 

[a j cave]

slug the barrell & also measure (wax etc) the chamber. the cartridges have expanded way to far ,looks like it is now a 44-40 my 2 cents

 

[ben hunchak]

Quite a chamber difference...could be headspace prob. or wrong cal....alot of 92's were rechambered in the old days......before their value was so high.

 

[sunray]

Headspace it ain't. Those reloads? If so, quit buying other people's reloads. You have no idea how many times the brass was loaded, what it's loaded with or if the loader knew what he was doing.
That shoulder doesn't look right to me. It should be a shoulder angle of 6 degrees 48 minutes. The brass may have cracked because the brass wasn't sized properly. The necks are really thin to start with too.
Pull one of those bullets and measure it too. They should be .400" or .401".

 

[John Y Cannuck]

I have fired 38-40 in 44-40 chambers many times. They don't always fire form to the 44-40 chamber perfectly. But looking at the pic, you don't appear to have a 44-40 chamber. Certainly slugging your bore would be worth it.
It's possible that you have old stock brass, but I doub't it. You need to inspect the chamber, and do it very carefully.
It is normal for new 38-40 brass to change shape radically when fired. The round itself is quite small compared to most (but not all) 38-40 chambers and that may be all you are seeing, if like I mentioned earlier the brass is many years old, old stock.
The shoulder failure (just like yours) is one that I see with fair regularity in this brass over time, using reloads. The shoulder is blown forward a long ways in most chambers, and the brass is very thin. Set your dies so that you don't work the shoulder. (neck size)
That way you will eliminate any headspace issues with your rifle as well.

 

[John Y Cannuck]

You may be forced to buy brass separately, and fire low pressure fire forming loads to get the brass sized to your chamber.

 

[senior]

Like John said old brass has a habit of cracking like that.
BUT judging from the pics I certainly think something is not right, it looks like you may have a bulged chamber
38 & 44 -40s have a habit of having loose bullets in the case, I wouldn't be surprised if some-one hasn't levered a shell out of the chamber & left the bullet in there & then shoved a fesh round in behind it with not so good results!

 

[John Y Cannuck]

The pressure is so low it didn't even fire form the bottom crimp out. The brass probably blew because it is unsupported, before the bullet even started to move. Chambers on these old guns are sometimes quite generous, and it may or may not be bulged.
It would be hard to bulge a chamber on a 92 using the 38-40, with factory loads anyways. Pressure is just way too low, and the action is very very strong.

 

[senior]

Don't mean to question you John you are probably quite right but do you not think a shell fired with an double bullet would raise pressure considerable?

 

[John Spartan]

Just curious, what load was being used?

 

[Billy The Kid]

Headspace it ain't.

Please explain.....

 

[david doyle]

The case on the left at the baseof the split shows just how much brass flow there was, there is definetley room in that chamber. Until you do a chamber cast you wont know what is happenning, did you measure bullet diameter?

Glad to know that a 92 takes care of gas well.

 

[John Y Cannuck]

Don't mean to question you John you are probably quite right but do you not think a shell fired with an double bullet would raise pressure considerable?

Yes, I do, but I wonder if even that would do it. Remember that the '92 has been chambered for the 44 Mag.

 

[John Y Cannuck]

Please explain.....

With factory rounds, the 38-40 headspaces on the rim.
Handloads can headspace on the shoulder, if the reloader neck sizes the case.

 

[Ont Shooter]

Hey guys

Thanks for your comments.

Sorry I asked the question and then had to leave for a day or so.

The rounds are new in the box Winchester bought a week ago(who knows when the were made.)

The rounds were 180 grain soft point

I did measure bullet diameter. .399 -.400ish. in the case

I like the ideas of trying to cast the chamber and the fire low pressure fire forming loads.

I'm not sure I know how to cast or slug a chamber??

Thanks Again

OS

 

[John Y Cannuck]

Slugging your bore is accomplished by pushing (forcing) a slug larger than your bore down the barrel and then measuring it.

a chamber cast is probably best performed in a gunsmith's shop, but if you want to try, the stuff you pour down the bore is called cero-safe (sp) It hardens in the chamber, this forms a cast image, and is then pushed out allowing you to see any imperfections in your chamber.

 

[Ont Shooter]

OK How much force is required and how much larger for the slug?

 

[John Y Cannuck]

Pure lead works best, not much force required once it's started. Just a bit large than the bore is all you need. I've heard of people using fishing sinkers.
I used a 44 cal lead ball to do mine. Excess lead sheared off.

 

[Ont Shooter]

Ok can do that,
Can you do it from the muzzle end? does it matter?

Can anything else be used to cast the chamber? Wax? I guess you need easy to clean but holds it's shape?

Thanks CN

 

[John Y Cannuck]

Yes, you can do it from the muzzle end, use a soft faced mallet to get the slug started. Once started, push it through with a dowel. I used an old cleaning rod. Don't use a good cleaning rod, it may get buggered up with lead.

Again, be sure it's soft lead, you can mark easily with your finger nail.