38-55 Cast Load Data...

dak47

dak47

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So, I have a very low serial # 1894. I have fired some of the old yellow box C.I.L. Dominion rounds that I inherited with the rifle and it functions perfectly and with the flip up peep sight is really quite accurate.

Thinking that I want to keep the 'ol 94 unstressed but I also would like to hunt whiteys with it, what would you suggest for loads? I stumbled across these 240gr Laser Cast boolits, brass, 220gr .375 jacketed Hornadys, dies etc and scooped it all. I haven't slugged it yet.....

Any load thoughts for this old family heirloom is much appreciated!

Dirk

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Bores in .38-55's can vary quite a bit. I'd definitely slug it before loading cast. Jacketed can be loaded and shot to test since you don't have to worry about leading. If they don't tumble and keyhole on the target, they're good.

There is data for a 250gr cast Lyman bullet on the Hodgdon data site http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle
Personally I wouldn't have much issue using data for a 250gr bullets with your 240gr Lasercast (if they're found to be the right size after slugging). Maybe start a grain or two above the starting loads Hodgdon lists.

The Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook has loads for 225gr and 249gr cast bullets which may help you. They also have data for 264, 300, 312, and 335gr.
I'd use the 225gr data with the 220gr jacketed. Your rifle wont notice a 5gr difference. There can be differences in how the pressure responds to different bullet material (cast vs. jacketed) but I've swapped them from starting loads without issue many times.

Which powders do you have access to? The Lyman manuals data for 225gr bullets includes:
Trailboss
Reloader-7
IMR4198
IMR4895
IMR3031
AA-5744
Goex FFg black powder
Pyrodex RS
 
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Thanks Lutnit! Good Intel and Confirming some of my thoughts.... Have TrailBoss, IMR 4198 & 4895 at my disposal presently. Will slug the pig tomorrow and start off on the right foot as much as I just want to roll some up and go shooting....

Cheers,
Dirk
 
For a 225gr cast:

Trail Boss
7 - 9 gr
991 - 1177 fps
15,700 - 27,900 CUP

IMR 4198
21 - 24 gr
1440 - 1750 fps
13,400 - 27,800 CUP

IMR 4895
29.5 - 37.0 gr
1406 - 1837 fps
12,200 - 27,100 CUP

Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 4th ed.

Like I said, from starting loads I wouldn't have a problem using this data for a jacketed bullets. Start low and work up, same as always. If the jacketed bullets don't tumble and keyhole on paper, I'd call them good to go for hunting.

The only thing I can think of that may be a problem is what velocity are the jacketed bullets you have designed to expand at? If they were meant for a .375 Winchester or possible a .375 H&H Magnum they may not have great terminal performance at .38-55 velocities. The 220gr bullets you bought appear to be discontinued by Hornady? They're no longer listed on their website in any case. If you called their customer service department they may be able to give an ideal velocity range. Most of what they have now look to be designed for .375 H&H.

*edit*
A quick Google search shows lots of people liking that bullet in .375 Wins but several saying a .38-55 is too slow for proper expansion. One guy said if you're using it in a .375 H&H mag to load down until your velocity is 2200-2300fps. I have no personal experience with it.

Looks like Barnes makes a 255gr .377" jacketed bullet meant to expand at .38-55 velocities. Probably have to start calling Barnes dealers in your area or check online retailers. Might be special order?
X-Reload has a listing for them but they're out of stock.
 
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That 220 grain Hornady is a true .375" bullet, and often will not shoot in the {usually} larger groove diameter 38-55.

I know that my own, older 38-55 keyholed that bullet every time. Even my later [1979] reproduction M94 did not like them at all.

However, I do shoot the Laser-Cast bullets, and they work well. I use Norma 200, but it is similar to IMR4198.

My Legendary Frontiersman repro will shoot them into 1½ moa if I do my part.

The 38-55, even the older versions, tolerate 16-1700 fps loads with that 240 grainer.

BTW, those older CIL loads are considerably hotter than the Winchester loadings available now. [1600fps vs 1200 fps]

Regards, Dave.
 
I have owned 5x .38-55 Winchester 94's in the past. My current is a 1906, 26" barrel rifle that gives me 3rd 2" groups at 100 yds using IMR 3031 and Bullet Barn cast lead bullets. The next most efficient powder is IMR 4895. If you are into frustration try IMR 4198 & IMR 4227. Nice gallery loads can be had using either Unique or Red Dot.
 
Gday mate.
I posted about my 375bb & cast boolits . I amcusin ar2207 around 28gr -31gr an find it ok for hunting the sambars within 100m .

I rekon my loads are on par with hotter 38/55 loads, 1800fps plenty enough

WL
 
Garand, I'm still searching around and trying loads of my own. To date I've only tried the 4227 and 4198 loads. Then I read your post and I'm happy that I also picked up a pound of 4895 a while back.

What in particular did you find was wrong with the 4227 and 4198? So far I found that 4198 is giving me better results than my previous test loading with 4227. But I confess to not having done a graduated series testing yet. I've yet to find a good continuous source of bullets that suit my .376'ish size bore on my two single shot rifles. If I don't find something I'm going to have to get into casting and lubing myself I guess.

Dak, it's essential that you slug your bore. I don't know if there is any other cartridge in history that has seen so many variations over the years as the .38-55. With two sizes of brass and two distinct bore sizes things can get very confusing. Likely since you have a lever rifle you're going to find that the groove diameter is up around .379 to .381. And as such I suspect that the .375 size Hornadys will have to be sold off to someone that loads .375 Win. The good news is that the .380 size LaserCast will likely work well. But the problem is to have a continuous source. Because of the rather slow and rainbow like trajectory of .38-55 it is even more important than ever to have a consistent load. And that starts with a consistent bullet from batch to batch. You'll just get to where you're happy with the one and then run out. Ask me how I know.... :d
 
I have a dozen or more Win. 1894's & some Marlin's . Most Win. have .379" or sometimes bigger groove dia.
I shoot a light target load for last 30 + years with the Lyman Cast bullet # 375248 & 7 gr. of Unique powder .
I cast that bullet from wheel weight lead . Load is easy on gun , accurate & no issues .
Have used this consistently for 100 & 200 yd. competitions ( side events @ CAS ) ,,,,,,, works great. ,,,,,,, FK.
 
update 4 years later, after extensive use of cast 245gr with the 28gr loads iv recently downloaded further to around 20gr of AR2207 with the same 245gr FN coated cast , still using it for 100m an under sambar deer with reasonable success and some failures, mostly user error.

i have a stash of 2206h with enough to load up an test the 375 at 38-55 velocitys which is more tolerable in the recoil department for comfy plinking an plenty of power for poking the hole in the deer.

summer is lever gun down under so il be looking forward to using it in coming months.

any newbies to the 375/38 -55 round posting these days?
 
It is nice to hear from a fellow shooter that lives so far away and shoots 'the oldies'.

I mostly shoot my lever guns in the winter with black powder cartridges, but a recent move to smokeless has been happening at my shooting club. I have had good luck with Unique, although it does not fill much of the case.

I am reluctant to start on my last bottle of 4759 because that powder is now discontinued by the manufacturer, but may to use it up and try 4227.

Thanks for the update.
 
Many of the win 1894's will have .380+ grooves and if the bores are rough may only shoot jacketed well.I had Ron Smith re-bore a pre-safety Marlin from 30-30 to 38-55 with a 1-16" twist at .376 so I can use .375 + .377 bullets.There are two lengths of brass to contend with I use the long Starline with 29gr /IMR 3031 giving 1 1/2" groups at 100 yards and 32gr 1 1/4" for 3 shots and a 4th flyer 1 1/2". Bullet 273gr GC Jet Bullets.
 
Following this old/new thread with interest as yesterday I picked up a new to me Legendary Frontiersman in 38-55. I’ll likely order the Lee250 RF mold. Came with 70 brass and an RCBS 3 die set.
 
What I've seen is that older or 1st generation winchesters chamber and shoot .379" bullets well. The newer winchesters, like the 38-55 commemoratives have tighter bore and do well with .377" cast.

Some old rifles with oversize bores do better with .381", but be careful, many modern 38-55 seater dies aren't compatible with .381"
 
jethunter said:
What I've seen is that older or 1st generation winchesters chamber and shoot .379" bullets well. The newer winchesters, like the 38-55 commemoratives have tighter bore and do well with .377" cast.

Some old rifles with oversize bores do better with .381", but be careful, many modern 38-55 seater dies aren't compatible with .381"
Click to expand...
I have found this to be true with my Winchester 1911 and Savage 1908 in 38-55. The expander plug in new dies is made for .375 diameter bullets. I have made up an expander measuring.378 for a Lyman m die. Works well seating cast bullets. Helps to own a lathe. I normally load black powder in my 38-55’s.
 
lpel said:
Following this old/new thread with interest as yesterday I picked up a new to me Legendary Frontiersman in 38-55. I’ll likely order the Lee250 RF mold. Came with 70 brass and an RCBS 3 die set.
Click to expand...

Nice!

good to get some Brass and Die set with the Sale..
hope to see an hear of some adventures with it lpel
 
jethunter said:
What I've seen is that older or 1st generation winchesters chamber and shoot .379" bullets well. The newer winchesters, like the 38-55 commemoratives have tighter bore and do well with .377" cast.

Some old rifles with oversize bores do better with .381", but be careful, many modern 38-55 seater dies aren't compatible with .381"
Click to expand...

The RCBS cowboy seater die worked with your .381 bullets I got from you last year.
 
NOPE! nothing new to see here.
For old or new 38-55, UNIQUE and fat cast bullets work.
As Frank said 7 grains unique will work just fine. I know cause he has bested me often.
 
I was out shooting my new to me Legendary Frontiersman the other day. I was shooting some Hornady 220 FP (375”) in Winchester 2.080” brass and 33.0 gr of IMR 3031. This is the load the previous owner was using. But it shot about 8” high at 50 yards and the rear sight was already bottomed out! I’m hoping I won’t have that problem with a 250 gr cast bullet. I will primarily be shooting cast out of it but I had these components on hand.

After the Christmas mail rush is over I will order the Lee 379-250-RF. Does anyone have any experience with this mold? I will also order some Starline brass as well but am struggling on which length to order. The 2.080 or 2.125? Does one have an advantage over the other? Any recommendations?

Interested in hearing loads that are working for you. PM if you rather not post. I continue to prowl the internet for any additional information I can find and am researching on Cast Boolits as well. I’m intrigued with my new find and am looking for any information fellow shooters care to share.

All the best!
 
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