38-55 modern
- Thread starter JTF#
- Start date
I've had a similar gun and it worked fine with the WW offerings.
Winchester definitely loads on the weak side. My bbl was pretty shot out as well so the JSP bullet didn't get much backpressure, but it was dismal power wise none-the-less.
Should be safe, the CIL offerings from the '60's were pushing 1600-1700 fps and these guns eat a lot of that fodder no problem.
Is the bbl marked nickel steel?
Winchester definitely loads on the weak side. My bbl was pretty shot out as well so the JSP bullet didn't get much backpressure, but it was dismal power wise none-the-less.
Should be safe, the CIL offerings from the '60's were pushing 1600-1700 fps and these guns eat a lot of that fodder no problem.
Is the bbl marked nickel steel?
Like tokguy says, no worries provided the rifle is in good condition. The .38/55 as loaded today is very mild, 255 grain bullet at around 1300. There was a .38/55 High Velocity load marketed back in the 1920's that clocked around 1800 fps with the same bullet but if you can find a box of these now a collector would pay well for them.
Muskyhunter1
CGN Regular
- Location
- Near the tree with the crooked limb.
Delete
Double tap please delete. thanks
Double tap please delete. thanks
Last edited:
Muskyhunter1
CGN Regular
- Location
- Near the tree with the crooked limb.
JTF - I likely have the sister to your rifle. Like tokguy says - he gave me some really good advise getting my rifle shooting well.
I shoot smokeless 4227 out of mine but my loads are all cast and very conservative. I would get it checked out. The first couple of times I fired mine I shot it remotely.
Check the groove diameter as it is likely .380 of an inch plus or minus. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the modern 38-55 ammo comes with .375 dia bullets. If your rifling is worn your accuracy will not be that great. Mine the bullets even key holed at 25 yards. Get some oversize cast to load (.380 - .381). They are great rifles and deserve a little TLC and they are fun to shoot.
If you don't reload them you need to find some older factory shells. I believe Imperial Brand used to come with .377 dia bullets and it shot well out of my rifle.
Good luck and enjoy.
I shoot smokeless 4227 out of mine but my loads are all cast and very conservative. I would get it checked out. The first couple of times I fired mine I shot it remotely.
Check the groove diameter as it is likely .380 of an inch plus or minus. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the modern 38-55 ammo comes with .375 dia bullets. If your rifling is worn your accuracy will not be that great. Mine the bullets even key holed at 25 yards. Get some oversize cast to load (.380 - .381). They are great rifles and deserve a little TLC and they are fun to shoot.
If you don't reload them you need to find some older factory shells. I believe Imperial Brand used to come with .377 dia bullets and it shot well out of my rifle.
Good luck and enjoy.
I ended up using a oversize Lee mold ( .379 dia ) and pure lead bullets with a charge of faster powder behind it.
22 grains of 4227 IIRC. It seemed to bump up the pure lead bullet into the (admittedly worn and oversize bore ) rifling. But tweaking it made the old, worn out girl get me another 6-8 deer out of it.
The fellow I'd bought it from ( 300 $)said it 'keyholed' and if they were using the hotter CIL offerings (which still are around, he gave me a box or two with the rifle) then I have no doubt that the hotter load caused the bullets to skid over the rifling and keyhole upon exiting the muzzle.
The old dog I had didn't work well with conventional loads thats for sure. Using a slower powder like 4895 was less than ideal, more than a few grains would be obvious on inspecting the action after shooting 4 - 5 rounds.
But as stated before, Winchester's current factory offerings are quite sedate.
22 grains of 4227 IIRC. It seemed to bump up the pure lead bullet into the (admittedly worn and oversize bore ) rifling. But tweaking it made the old, worn out girl get me another 6-8 deer out of it.
The fellow I'd bought it from ( 300 $)said it 'keyholed' and if they were using the hotter CIL offerings (which still are around, he gave me a box or two with the rifle) then I have no doubt that the hotter load caused the bullets to skid over the rifling and keyhole upon exiting the muzzle.
The old dog I had didn't work well with conventional loads thats for sure. Using a slower powder like 4895 was less than ideal, more than a few grains would be obvious on inspecting the action after shooting 4 - 5 rounds.
But as stated before, Winchester's current factory offerings are quite sedate.
thanks for the info. I plan to use black powder loads once I built up some brass but since you can buy the loaded smokeless stuff off the shelf that is what I will try out in it first. this is the first gun I got that I want to mould bullets and reload for with black powder. I am hoping to join in some of the cowboy shoots at our gun club one day.
Muskyhunter1
CGN Regular
- Location
- Near the tree with the crooked limb.
Welcome to the 38-55 journey. We will be here for you my friend.
Good luck.
Good luck.
The .38-55 and the .32-40 both were BALLARD cartridges which Winchester adopted (and renamed) because they both were popular Match cartridges with reputations for excellent accuracy. That was, however, back in the day of soft-lead bullets and Black powder. Both made the double transition to Smokeless powder and to jacketed bullets.
Alas! But many of the old rifles are a century old or coming up to it (last ones made in 1935) and a century of firing plus a century of cleaning plus often-loose original tolerances plus the rigidity of jacketed slugs, all has taken its toll. In many cases, this means that the old champs are not what once they were.
But they can be brought back. I am handloading the .32-40 for a couple of friends and they are very pleased with the results. Their rifles are in pretty good shape, so I can get away with using 4198; if they were any worse, then the really fast powders would come out.
You can duplicate pretty much ANY Black-powder loading with Smokeless SR-4759 by loading it at THIRTY-EIGHT PERCENT of the Black charge. For the 32-40 this means 17.6 grains of SR-4759, for the .38-55 it means 20.9 grains. You get the original Black-powder performance at the original Black-powder pressures. Going further, to a softer lead flat-base bullet, gives the powder something to work against: very often a soft-lead bullet will "bump up" when fired and deliver excellent accuracy.
Good luck and have fun!
Alas! But many of the old rifles are a century old or coming up to it (last ones made in 1935) and a century of firing plus a century of cleaning plus often-loose original tolerances plus the rigidity of jacketed slugs, all has taken its toll. In many cases, this means that the old champs are not what once they were.
But they can be brought back. I am handloading the .32-40 for a couple of friends and they are very pleased with the results. Their rifles are in pretty good shape, so I can get away with using 4198; if they were any worse, then the really fast powders would come out.
You can duplicate pretty much ANY Black-powder loading with Smokeless SR-4759 by loading it at THIRTY-EIGHT PERCENT of the Black charge. For the 32-40 this means 17.6 grains of SR-4759, for the .38-55 it means 20.9 grains. You get the original Black-powder performance at the original Black-powder pressures. Going further, to a softer lead flat-base bullet, gives the powder something to work against: very often a soft-lead bullet will "bump up" when fired and deliver excellent accuracy.
Good luck and have fun!
Hi Brothers, think this a kind of funny thread, we should have a family reunion, I must have at least a catch colt in this family
Here is a couple pics , you can see my ser. # , just curious where are you guys ser. number at. Smellie you saying you can get better results with fast like 4759-- accuracy? but velocity would only be like 1200?. Years ago I tried to use 3031 and 255 gr lead bullets in this old girl. Lots of velocity but wasn't so good in accuracy as I remember. One of the things I wanted to do was try BP but I hate trying to clean lever actions with hot water Anyways now I think I might like to try some 4759 or something like that. Very good info there Smellie. I only have 15 of those old lead bullets left , I don't suppose you would make me up a few tokguy seeing as how we are related LOL. I have so many projects I want to try, better get at it. People don't live to be 120. Oh by the way if we had a family reunion I am sure we would have more to talk about then some I've been at.
SR-4759 is an extremely accurate powder and it is also BULKY. When using it, you use less than half (by weight) of the Black charge but you don't need a buffer because your casing is almost full. The powder is VERY quick and bulky enough that there are very few problems. It is the "go to" powder for duplicating Black Powder ballistics and pressures, at 38%-of-Black charge weights.
On fellow I am loading for with the .32-40 is VERY happy with what I have cooked up, and they duplicate the Black-powder loads precisely. We did try some hotter loads and the accuracy went all to heck and back. Dropped back to duplicating the original BP load and groups tightened up like putting alum on a ...... well, you know.
What I think important for these old warhorses:
flatbase bullets
soft-lead slugs if possible
duplicate the original performance, which is what they are rifled to handle.
Have fun!
On fellow I am loading for with the .32-40 is VERY happy with what I have cooked up, and they duplicate the Black-powder loads precisely. We did try some hotter loads and the accuracy went all to heck and back. Dropped back to duplicating the original BP load and groups tightened up like putting alum on a ...... well, you know.
What I think important for these old warhorses:
flatbase bullets
soft-lead slugs if possible
duplicate the original performance, which is what they are rifled to handle.
Have fun!
OP, begging pardon for the tangent from the original post.
Sure Jack, I can try to cast you off some pure lead .379 dia. Got any friendly business's in Gull Lake? I go through that #1 line every 10 days or so. Don't make it down to God's country much anymore but I'm wearing out vehicles on that #1 pass through, LOL.
Stay Safe
tokguy
Sure Jack, I can try to cast you off some pure lead .379 dia. Got any friendly business's in Gull Lake? I go through that #1 line every 10 days or so. Don't make it down to God's country much anymore but I'm wearing out vehicles on that #1 pass through, LOL.
Stay Safe
tokguy
Even brand new 38-55 are made with oversize bores. Mine slugs at .382 good luck finding proper bullet of that size. Even if you do brass will be bulging and chambering will be inconsistent every time. Why were they made that way is beyond my understanding.
I put a Winchester jacketed round into the muzzle and it slid right in. I am thinking this means I will have to go with the biggest bullet mould for reloading. track of the wolf sells .379 bullets I will try them first.
I like that little sight too. makes it a little different from other lever guns.
I like that little sight too. makes it a little different from other lever guns.
