38/55 uberti highwall bullet weight?.
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Have you slugged your bore yet? I got one of the .38-55 Ubertis recently as well. It'll go nicely with the rolling block I already have in the same chambering. When I slugged mine it came out as .373 for the bore (lands) size and .378 for the groove diameter. I've got some 245gn .379's made by Bullet Barn I'm going to start with.
If yours slugs to the same sizes then I'm thinking that .381 might be a trifle big. Not by much mind you.
There's not a lot of options for good .38-55 molds out there. We both may end up doing the custom order thing eventually. Like you I'd like to work with something bigger and more around the 300gn mark so it has some more knock down power for the big steel rams I shoot at a couple of times a year.
If yours slugs to the same sizes then I'm thinking that .381 might be a trifle big. Not by much mind you.
There's not a lot of options for good .38-55 molds out there. We both may end up doing the custom order thing eventually. Like you I'd like to work with something bigger and more around the 300gn mark so it has some more knock down power for the big steel rams I shoot at a couple of times a year.
fingers284
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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Welcome to the world of reloading what I call "the most frustrating caliber of them all". I don't really have an answer to your specific question as I have used mostly 250-270 gr cast.
They are the most frustrating because of the for-mentioned fact of a large variance in bore diameters. I have three 35-55's and a 38-56 that have been the bane of me to get to shoot consistent. They are all vintage lever guns but some of my experience's may overlap to your single shot.
I have slugged the bores on all and they go from .376 to .379...that is what the slugs measure, however, and I think this is where the problem is, is that when slugging I feel loose area's in the length of the bore on all of them.
I'm still searching for a recipe that works for the 38-55's but finally did find a bullet that shoots very well in the 38-56. A 265 gr .379 dia bullet from a board member (thank you Jethunter) that works very well in it. The only problem I had with this bullet (the reason for this post and is something to watch out for when purchasing molds/bullets) is that it has a large enough front riding ring that when I tried to crimp with ordinary Lee or RCBS dies, the crimping ring in the die would contact the bullet front ring and seat the bullet way past the OAL I wanted. I acquired a set of RCBS Cowboy dies that allow clearance for oversized bullets and don't contact the bullet when crimping.
Hopefully the bore on your "new gun" is more uniform than the old ones and much more predictable in it's performance...either way, getting an old cartridge to shoot consistent is sure gratifying. Good Luck
They are the most frustrating because of the for-mentioned fact of a large variance in bore diameters. I have three 35-55's and a 38-56 that have been the bane of me to get to shoot consistent. They are all vintage lever guns but some of my experience's may overlap to your single shot.
I have slugged the bores on all and they go from .376 to .379...that is what the slugs measure, however, and I think this is where the problem is, is that when slugging I feel loose area's in the length of the bore on all of them.
I'm still searching for a recipe that works for the 38-55's but finally did find a bullet that shoots very well in the 38-56. A 265 gr .379 dia bullet from a board member (thank you Jethunter) that works very well in it. The only problem I had with this bullet (the reason for this post and is something to watch out for when purchasing molds/bullets) is that it has a large enough front riding ring that when I tried to crimp with ordinary Lee or RCBS dies, the crimping ring in the die would contact the bullet front ring and seat the bullet way past the OAL I wanted. I acquired a set of RCBS Cowboy dies that allow clearance for oversized bullets and don't contact the bullet when crimping.
Hopefully the bore on your "new gun" is more uniform than the old ones and much more predictable in it's performance...either way, getting an old cartridge to shoot consistent is sure gratifying. Good Luck
I am not an expert on BPCR rifles, by anyone's definition, but I'll offer what I know. The question of bullet diameter has been addressed pretty well by the above posts. Slugging your bore is a necessity, there is no other way to know what diameter you need. The rifle will not shoot to it's potential without proper fitting bullets. Attaining that ideal, though, is no piece of cake. As cast bullet diameters will vary a small amount in any given mold, with changes in alloy, for example. I do not have a lot of experience casting bullets for BPCR, but I have been dicking around for a year and a half with conical bullets for my muzzle loading Gibbs rifle. In the end, I have made sizing dies for both paper patched and grease grooved bullets, because that was the only way I could get a perfect fit.
Bullet weight is less a matter of preference than a matter of science. The twist rate of your bore requires that you use a bullet that is of proper length for that twist rate. For example, a 1/18" twist rate will stabilise a longer bullet than a 1/28" twist rate. My experience is with .45 cal, so I will use examples. A typical 45/70 has a 1/18 twist rate, and needs a 540 grain (more or less) bullet to stabilise. This is not because of the weight, but because of the bullet length. A .45 cal, 540 grain bullet will be about 1.4 inches in length, more or less. A 45/90 WCF, OTOH, is an "express" cartridge, meaning that it was designed to shoot a lighter, shorter bullet, at higher velocities, than the 45/70. In order to stabilise the shorter bullet, though, the 1886 Winchester rifle has a twist rate of 1/28". It will not stabilise the much longer 540 grain bullet. It requires a bullet weight of about 300-350 grains, in order to get the proper length.
Another question is what alloy to cast with. The bullets need to be hard enough to maintain its shape, but soft enough to grip the rifling easily, and to "mushroom" if you shoot a deer with it. You need to consider whether you want to use paper patched bullets, or grease grooved. You need one or the other, to prevent lead fouling. Alloy hardness will also play a roll in lead fouling. If you choose paper patched bullets, the bullet diameter will have to be smaller by .004", or so, to allow for the patch.
As you may notice, the question of bullet selection for a BPCR is not real straight forward. OTOH, it is all based on physics, so while the requirements seem complex, a little research will get you pretty close. Each rifle is an individual, but the physics are pretty constant, so apart from minor tweeking, most of the variables are predetermined by the bore diameter and twist rate. That said, these things will drive you to drugs! Check out http://www.bpcr.net/site_docs-results_schedules/documents/bp_cartridge_reloading_dick_trenk.htm, or http://www.bpcr.net/forum/.
Oh, almost forgot, check out http://www.boomersmoulds.com/index.html, if you can't find a mold that you like. Leo makes custom molds for a reasonable sum, in Regina, SK.
Good luck with your project. Hopefully, one or two of the real experts on this forum will chip in and give better information than what I have.
Bullet weight is less a matter of preference than a matter of science. The twist rate of your bore requires that you use a bullet that is of proper length for that twist rate. For example, a 1/18" twist rate will stabilise a longer bullet than a 1/28" twist rate. My experience is with .45 cal, so I will use examples. A typical 45/70 has a 1/18 twist rate, and needs a 540 grain (more or less) bullet to stabilise. This is not because of the weight, but because of the bullet length. A .45 cal, 540 grain bullet will be about 1.4 inches in length, more or less. A 45/90 WCF, OTOH, is an "express" cartridge, meaning that it was designed to shoot a lighter, shorter bullet, at higher velocities, than the 45/70. In order to stabilise the shorter bullet, though, the 1886 Winchester rifle has a twist rate of 1/28". It will not stabilise the much longer 540 grain bullet. It requires a bullet weight of about 300-350 grains, in order to get the proper length.
Another question is what alloy to cast with. The bullets need to be hard enough to maintain its shape, but soft enough to grip the rifling easily, and to "mushroom" if you shoot a deer with it. You need to consider whether you want to use paper patched bullets, or grease grooved. You need one or the other, to prevent lead fouling. Alloy hardness will also play a roll in lead fouling. If you choose paper patched bullets, the bullet diameter will have to be smaller by .004", or so, to allow for the patch.
As you may notice, the question of bullet selection for a BPCR is not real straight forward. OTOH, it is all based on physics, so while the requirements seem complex, a little research will get you pretty close. Each rifle is an individual, but the physics are pretty constant, so apart from minor tweeking, most of the variables are predetermined by the bore diameter and twist rate. That said, these things will drive you to drugs! Check out http://www.bpcr.net/site_docs-results_schedules/documents/bp_cartridge_reloading_dick_trenk.htm, or http://www.bpcr.net/forum/.
Oh, almost forgot, check out http://www.boomersmoulds.com/index.html, if you can't find a mold that you like. Leo makes custom molds for a reasonable sum, in Regina, SK.
Good luck with your project. Hopefully, one or two of the real experts on this forum will chip in and give better information than what I have.
I have run into the same issue with crimping larger dia.bullets as well. The 577 snider as well and the 8x56R (LEE DIES) for example. Always use the Lee factory crimp die if available for the cartridge. Plan on starting with smokeless powder then if that pans out will be switching to black. Online information on the UBERTI points to a bullet in the .379-.380 with weights from 250- 350 gr. Picked up a Pedersoli Sharps off a board member and am having issues with light firing pin strikes and have been only been able to get it to print 3" at 100.
Typical group with the 550 gr with IMR 4198
Typical group with the 550 gr with IMR 4198
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My own measurements point to a .379 as well. Common information I find on cast bullets suggests .002 over the groove diameter then play a bit with the alloy mixture.
Something to consider since this will be a cast lead only rifle is to join up over at Cast Boolits dot com. It's not a replacement for this forum by any means. But it's a treasure trove of everything related to casting and shooting cast boolits.
Something to consider since this will be a cast lead only rifle is to join up over at Cast Boolits dot com. It's not a replacement for this forum by any means. But it's a treasure trove of everything related to casting and shooting cast boolits.
NorthCoastBigBore
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Northwest BC (Rural) 103-I-##
Funny I was thinking the same thing as I browsed this thread. No not a replacement at all - but yes some great info there. Anyone shootin' a .32 RF should read the thread in there on it...
0.002" over is a rule of thumb on cast I've used for years, came from the elderly folks who taught me (before the intermanet) - seconded. Motion isn't carried yet though. YMMV
I am shooting only black powder and cast bullets. My new Winchester 1886 bore miked at .376 so I ordered a custom 320 gr mold casting .378 with grease grooves for silhouette and deer. I immediately had trouble chambering my loaded cartridges and upon careful measurements found my alloy was casting closer to .380 slugs so too tight in the chamber. I went to progressively softer alloys until I got the diameter as cast down to ,377 to .378 and now they chamber properly. My alloy is about 1:25 now. I load as-cast rather than putting my slugs through a sizing die. My most accurate load is 40 gr FFFg compressed about 3.32".
