.38-55 Winchester

conor_90

conor_90

CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Rating - 100%
91   0   0
Location
NW BC
Hi guys, I am an archaeologist. A while back I found a .38-55 Winchester shell casing at a site I was working on in the lower mainland. Not something I've ever shot or seen, same with all of the big game hunters on site.

I have some questions about this cartridge, I have wikipediad it but I am looking for personal recollections from some more seasoned members.

What was the most popular rifle in this caliber?
Was the caliber common after the 1900's, or did it get phased out by newer ammo?
Was it used commonly or was it a specialized cartridge for big game hunting and/or expensive?
What sort of game was taken down with it? (my guess, probably everything).
Was the colt lightning a common hunting rifle in western Canada?

I know, a lot of random questions, feel free to share any stories or info you have about the cartridge.
 
i had one made in 1915. lots of people still shoot them the spent shell may not be "historic". i think its a win. 94 cartridge the lightening is i believe for handgun cartridges i dont think it was chambered for 38 55. it was common in the early 20 century in absolute terms i wouldnt be surprised if theres more 38 55 rounds shot today than in its heyday
 
Winchester Model 94 rifles were the most common rifle for 38-55 calibre.
Marlin lever action would likely be the second most common rifle in that calibre. That calibre was very common until after WW2, when faded out fairly quickly. It was a very efficient calibre for bush hunting, especially liked for moose hunting at close range in the bush. I have seen where a couple moose were shot while standing in snow and a black streak, from the cut hair, was very visible on the far side of the moose where the bullet exited, after complete penetration!
I would be interested in knowing exactly what casing you found. I presume you found it in Canada, so the headstamp is likely "Dominion," but there were som many minor changes in it over the years. If I saw a picture of the headstamp I may be able to give a good estimate on it's age.
 
conor_90 said:
Hi guys, I am an archaeologist. A while back I found a .38-55 Winchester shell casing at a site I was working on in the lower mainland. Not something I've ever shot or seen, same with all of the big game hunters on site.

I have some questions about this cartridge, I have wikipediad it but I am looking for personal recollections from some more seasoned members.

What was the most popular rifle in this caliber?
Was the caliber common after the 1900's, or did it get phased out by newer ammo?
Was it used commonly or was it a specialized cartridge for big game hunting and/or expensive?
What sort of game was taken down with it? (my guess, probably everything).
Was the colt lightning a common hunting rifle in western Canada?

I know, a lot of random questions, feel free to share any stories or info you have about the cartridge.
Click to expand...

Throughout a long lifetime I have always been interested in finding old things, including the odd fossil. I will tell you about one.
In easterly-central Saskatchewan we were on a family holiday about forty years ago. We were at a lake with a very rocky shoreline. The water was low and we were walking on, mostly large, rocks, to get to the water line. It was about a hundred feet from shore to water and half way there, on the flat side of a mostly flat rock nearly three feet across, was the imprint of a huge fossil. It was in an ark, about a foot and a half across and the imprint was basically round in shape, with cross bars, as I remembered it. I didn't have a camera with me, or even a note pad, so I just made mental notes and drew them out when I got to where there was paper. Standing looking at this thing I seemed to so stand out that I thought I want to come back here, so my brother in law and I turned the rock over. We then sized up the area and I thought I could find the rock again! We never got back.
I contacted a department in Regina and they knew exactly what I had found. Apparently it wasn't really rare, but I have never seen a picture, or even heard of another.
If we had of had the truck on the trip from BC, instead of the car, we would have brought it home. At that time I don't think it was even illegal to have taken it.
It's extremely unlikely it will ever be seen again.
OP, is this along your line of expertise, like would you know what it was?
Bruce
 
Sorry Bruce my specialty is actually animal fossils, but of the sort we like to chase around for fun (ungulates, salmon and clams etc.). That sounds like a job for a paleontologist to me, I wouldn't be able to identify any animal from before the last ice age for you, sorry again.

Dominion arms sounds like it is the right stamp, but I would have to check my field notes from that site.

Thanks everyone for you comments.
 
The 38-55 was a very popular chambering in 1894 Winchesters, and 1893 Marlins.

Besides being a useful hunting chambering, it enjoyed a fair amount of success as a target round in single shot firearms of the day.

It's reputation for accuracy was quite widespread. The ammo for the 38-55 enjoyed changes over the years as well.

The earliest was a 255 grain bullet at about 12-1300 fps. This was later moved up into the 1500 fps bracket, and there was a high velocity load at over 1600.

The Winchester loadings available at present are a bit wimpy. My chrony says about 1245 fps average in my 24`barrelled 38-55.

The rounds loaded by C.I.L. Headstamped: D.C.C.Co, or later, Dominion, were a bit better, making about 1600 with that 255 grain softpoint.

I shot my biggest Whitetail deer with my 38-55, using the Barnes 255 grain, .377`diameter original, designed for the 38-55. The load was 32.0 grains of Benchmark, and chronys 1725 fps. This is a decisive killer inside of 150 yards or so.

The 38-55 is not a .375 groove diameter rifle like the 375 Winchester is. Usually the groove diameter is closer to .377, and some are as big as .380, so those using cast bullets need to slug their bores to determine actual groove diameter. Cast will shoot best if about .002 over groove diameter.

My 38-55 is a Winchester Legendary Frontiersman M94, built in 1979, so is a modern action. The groove diameter is .3773 inch, so I shoot cast that is .379 or .380 diameter, with good results. My rifle will not shoot the Hornady 220 grain .375 bullet designed for the 375 Winchester.

I have a Williams Foolproof aperture rear sight on my 38-55, with a Williams firesight at the front. With the 255 Barnes, it will shoot 1 - 1¼ inches at 100M.

I really like the 38-55, and shoot mine a fair amount.

Regards, Dave.
 
its most likely a 1894 Winchester , 32-40 and 38-55 were the only cartridges they were chambered for originally (only for a year) ammo is still made , just lighter loads for older guns, I shoot with a Winchester dated to 1904 and it handles it fine works flawlessly ,
the ammo is tough to find but that could just be me im told its still in stores i just cant find it , best bet is gun shows but expect to pay $25 - $30 for 1 box of 20
 
conor-90 You can also find a little more information beyond wiki ... just Google 38-55 Winchester.

I shot a few whitetails back in the late 60'/early 70's in Ontario with a Winchester 1894 lever rifle in 38-55.
Effective enough at typical ranges in the Ontario bush ( i.e. 50-75 yards )
In my opinion, the cartridge is more effective than the 44-40 but less so than the 30-30 or 32 Special.

I've run across maybe 30 or 40 Winchesters in 38-55 and a couple of Marlins over the years. Winchester was
cataloging a couple of varieties of their Model 94 in 38-55 as late as 2005 before they closed down in March of 2006.
 
I use the big brother, .375win for deer now an then it has accounted for some sambar deer, I use it open sighted with Williams peep an load 220gr hornadys for 1800fps which is low velocity for the 375bb, the new factory stuff is claimed around 2100fps, but for inside 150 I don't miss the speeds, its a thumper that gets great penetration imo.

wl
 
I'll throw my .38-55 experience into the ring here.

I now take my 1912 Winchester 1894 octagon .38-55 for deer hunting every single year. Several deer at our camp have been taken with this reliable old chambering (not by me yet, though).

Factory ammo is expensive and anemic (fifty bucks a box?!). I handload mine, and with cast bullets, make loads around 1600-1700 fps with 255 grain PURE lead boolits, for about 2-3 bucks for a box of 20. You can't beat that. My barrel slugged to .377. I powdercoat the pure lead slugs in my garage, and size them afterwards to .379 and have fine accuracy and high velocity with no leading.

I wouldn't be so sure your old case is necessarily that old...spent cases look old pretty fast. My main supply of cases is a few hundred Dominion cases from the 1940's, so you never know, a modern guy might have shucked that one into the weeds.

I love my .38-55. It's pleasant to shoot, accurate, fun and easy to reload for. A load I like to use as a squib partridge/plinking load is 5 grains of Unique behind a pure lead (unpowdercoated) 255 grain boolit. It's good for maybe 600-700 fps. Super fun stuff to plink with.
 
The .38-55 was chambered in some late 1890's/early 1900's "Cape Guns" (mostly Belgian made). Side by side doubles - usually with a 12 ga. shotgun barrel.

I shot my 1st deer with one.
 
^sounds like a good brush gun.

Thanks for your responses everyone.

Wardo I'm sort of confused, when you reload the 38-55 do you use modern smokeless powder? Definitely not a reloading historical gun expert but I was under the impression older firearms couldn't handle the pressure created by modern powder, do you just use less? Sorry if that's super ignorant.
 
The .38/55 can be loaded with smokeless. When it was introduced it was a black powder cartridge but like the .44/40, .45/70, .38/40, .32/20 and several others it was offered in smokeless loadings after it was introduced. Smokeless has entirely different burn characteristics than black powder so everything changes but it was used with great success. The only stupid question is the one you never ask.
 
conor_90 said:
^sounds like a good brush gun.

Thanks for your responses everyone.

Wardo I'm sort of confused, when you reload the 38-55 do you use modern smokeless powder? Definitely not a reloading historical gun expert but I was under the impression older firearms couldn't handle the pressure created by modern powder, do you just use less? Sorry if that's super ignorant.
Click to expand...

If you grab a 49th edition Lyman Reloading Handbook, you'll have a wealth of great info on reloading. It has a good batch of info concerning older rifles and chamberings as well as safe & accurate load data to go with 'em. It's a must have book for gun folks & has a decent selection of 38-55 loads.

If I didn't already own a Winchester 94 in .375 Win, then I'd most likely have one in 38-55. I load mine with 265 gr. hard cast, gas checked boolits to 1500 fps. and get good accuracy along with ample power for game inside 100 yds.(Preferably well inside.);)
 
I used to live on Southern Van Island and all I can say is I hope that isn't a deer load! Tiny little guys.

Thanks for the advice re: reloading.

I don't actually own a rifle at the moment, but I am hoping to pick up a lever action soon. My heart says .35 rem or 45/70 but reality is pushing me towards the 30/30.
 
There is still a goodly number of us that load and shoot .38-55 in single shot and lever action rifles. However it's likely no secret that new production rifles in .38-55 are very rare and likely only produced by the cottage industry makers and perhaps special runs as commemorative offerings.

For myself I'm shooting a antique Swedish rolling block that was mated to a newer C Sharpes barrel. To the rifle I added a Pedersoli rear peep sight and a Lyman globe front sight to set it up for long distance cowboy action side matches and possibly black powder cartridge shooting at some point.

Rifle2.jpg


There is a bit of a history to the .38-55 cartridge that I turned up in my studying for loading. Seems that this caliber started out as the Ballard with a longer casing and a slightly smaller bore size of .376 groove diameter. Along the way someone shortened the casings by about 0.1". Then at some later time from that the bore groove diameter and thus the bullet size increased to .378 and .379 respectively. And of course there are also now different reamers and loading dies just to add to the confusion.

All of which means that I'm sitting here with a barrel that was bored and rifled to be suitable for the older .376 groove diameter standard but which was chambered using the later "fatter" reamer so I've had to adopt some trickery to let my casings load smoothly. And even then I get some leading on the OUTSIDE of the casing. Plans call for eventually cutting back the rear of the barrel, extending the threading and recutting the chamber a little more with the smaller standard reamer. This being easy to figure out and do since the cartridge has a noticeable taper to it so I'll only need to trim about 1/4 to 3/8 of an inch to allow for a good proper size chamber.

On the other hand the folks with lever rifles are well served with dies and bullets for a lot of good options.

The reading I've done reported that the .38-55 was popular in the Win 94 for many years as lots of the Grumpy Old Guys back then didn't like change and didn't take to smokeless too readily. So they bought and shot the rifles in .38-55 so they could stick to casting their own bullets and using their well understood black powder. Also as I understand it the "new fangled" jacketed bullets needed to make the .30-30 rounds really perform were more expensive by far compared to cast bullets.
 
That's a beauty of a rifle BC rider. Thanks for some background on the culture of .38-55 users.

I can't disclose to much info about the site, but it used to be a homestead, and in the historical portion (historical in this case meaning after contact with settlers) of the assemblage we found some deer bones and the shell casing. Unfortunately everyone who know anything about guns on site was a shotgunner. It seems likely from context that this bullet was shot in the 1900's at a deer or bear roaming the orchard.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom