.38 cases in a .357 magnum rifle. Solution found!

[Longwalker]

I was pleased today to find a solution to a fun, but not very serious reloading challenge.

I have a Winchester M92 .357 Mag. lever action that isn't good for much, actually, but is a fun rifle that I use to plink informal targets and shoot the occasional varmint. Full power factory loads are expensive to shoot much and "overkill" for my purposes. I have several thousand .38 special cases that I acquired very cheaply. But the rifle won't feed standard .38 length ammo. And the .38's shoot much lower than the regular sight setting.

So I came up with a solution. A load that consists of Canadian made Campro 158 gr. copper plated truncated cone bullet, 12.5 gr. of Alliant 2400 powder, and a standard small pistol primer in any once-fired .38 special case.

The critical thing that makes this all possible is the Lee factory crimp die and seating the bullet at .357 mag. over all length despite the bullets lack of a crimping groove in the proper place. The load delivers 1600 fps from my rifle's 20" barrel. And it shoots to the same sight setting as 158 gr. jacketed factory loads at 50M, in nice tight groups, and costs very little.

Tin cans and small varmints will fear me!

 

[scotteboy]

I think that's in the Henry manual for shooting 38 in their levers

 

[moosetaco]

Great solution to the problem. Now time to load up a few hundred rounds of .38 at that length!

 

[geologist]

Great solution to the problem. Now time to load up a few hundred rounds of .38 at that length!

Or buy a rifle that feeds both .38 Sp and .357 Mag well............

 

[Longwalker]

Thought I'd spread the joy, even though I don't have a Henry manual or a rifle that can shoot .38's. Just trying to encourage others.

 

[Snider shooter]

Thought I'd spread the joy, even though I don't have a Henry manual or a rifle that can shoot .38's. Just trying to encourage others.

A lot of people don’t realize you can seat the bullet of and make it work. A few my learn something.
I’ve been doing stuff like this for years and every so often I’ll tell someone and they hadn’t any clue it could be done.

 

[big bear]

Years (many)ago there were articles in gun magazines discussing use of 38 Special cases in 357Mag revolvers. I am sure Skeeter Skelton had a pet load with a cast wadcatter 158grGC bullet loaded hot and long to shoot in his Smith&Wessons. In the olden days when I shot frequently with my revolvers I used that load alot. Alas, my Smith&Wesson 5" M27 now lives in Florida with a relative. O'Canada
Both my 38/357 carbines handle 38Special ammo n, Browning92, smooth as border, Marlin 1894 jams with everything (short and long) now and again

 

[VICIOUS]

The cowboy action shooters with Marlin rifles load 1.550 COL length , most crimp into the lube grove.

 

[Duramax6.6]

Or buy a rifle that feeds both .38 Sp and .357 Mag well............

Is that a real in the flesh Timberwolf? You lucky geologist you!
Tyler T-Grip or Pachmayr filler grip shown?

 

[lpel]

Well to add nothing useful to the thread. I was loading 357 mag today to shoot out of my Marlin. I just switched my Dillon SQD over to 38 Special which my Marlin also digests nicely. But I have done the same as Longwalker in the past and seated 38 Special to 357 mag length.

 

[I Dont Care About You]

I thought loading 38 Sp to 357 length was blindingly obvious?

 

[Duramax6.6]

The cowboy action shooters with Marlin rifles load 1.550 COL length , most crimp into the lube grove.

LEE Factory crimp dies are stronger than people figure. That awesome tool will swage a new groove right flush into any bullet except solid copper. Don’t be scared guys to crank that tool down and with the constant pressure to release the bullet your accuracy will improve. Been there done that with multiple calibers.

 

[geologist]

Is that a real in the flesh Timberwolf? You lucky geologist you!
Tyler T-Grip or Pachmayr filler grip shown?

Yup. All I had to do was instantly reply with "I'll take it at your ask", wait nervously for a couple of hours and then it was mine.........

It prints to different POI with different loads so I sight it in for full house .357 Mag 158 JHP at 25 yards and run only that load. Same load as in the S&W M19 with the Tyler T grip adaptor which I have on almost all of my S&W revolvers.

The stock is set in the drop position for the irons and it lines up instantly when I shoulder it, like a shotgun.

I think the pairing in my photo would be my choice for Joel in "The Last of Us".......................... Not a 5hitty Taurus 66............

A revolver/carbine combo that shares ammo makes sense in some situations.

And full house .357 magnum out of a 20" carbine barrel is a different world from what you get out of ANY handgun..........

 

[Longwalker]

I thought loading 38 Sp to 357 length was blindingly obvious?

If you can't be helpful, and don't care about others, why comment? It's "obvious" if you choose a bullet like the Lyman 358156 that has a crimp groove in the proper place. But the Lyman bullet hangs up in my Winchester's loading gate. So I needed a bullet with a smoother nose and no sharp shoulder. If you load a Campro bullet long, regular dies will not crimp adequately on the shaft of the bullet where there is no cannelure to crimp into. So the Lee crimp die is required. That's what my post is about.

 

[Deathrawt]

I had to load 38s long like that to feed a Uberti 1873 that I used to have and it worked perfectly fine
Also the manual for the Lee factory crimp die states that it will create its own crimp groove if needed but be careful with the plated cam pro bullets, if you give it too much crimp the die will actually slice through the plating of the bullet!

 

[jamesharrison]

Just make sure you work up a load with another powder, because 2400, like all Alliant powders, is no longer available. I use H110, W296 or Lil Gun.

What I've done for my Ruger #1S in .357 Magnum, is use Starline .38 Spl. +P cases [or W-W Super +P+] when I load heavy 200 & 223 grain cast bullets, as those bullets, when seated to the crimp ring, at least in .357 brass, are too long for the rifle's throat, but are fine when loaded into .38 Spl. cases to .357 C.O.A.L. specs.

You may also find, at least I did, that accuracy improves, the closer your bullet's ogive is to the throat/leade.

 

[I Dont Care About You]

If you can't be helpful, and don't care about others, why comment? It's "obvious" if you choose a bullet like the Lyman 358156 that has a crimp groove in the proper place. But the Lyman bullet hangs up in my Winchester's loading gate. So I needed a bullet with a smoother nose and no sharp shoulder. If you load a Campro bullet long, regular dies will not crimp adequately on the shaft of the bullet where there is no cannelure to crimp into. So the Lee crimp die is required. That's what my post is about.

Nah, your post is about you being totally unable to think outside the box and colour outside the lines.

There is nothing that says the crimp has to go into the cannelure. A regular set of dies is perfectly capable of crimping into the bullet without a cannelure. It's only soft lead and copper.

Don't be so fussy, after all ... I Don't Care About You.

 

[OkayShooter]

Was going to do that or use 38-55 bullets for light loads, to deal with the jump in my 357 rem max TC.