38 Super..good, bad, indifferent!?

F

foxbat

CGN frequent flyer
Rating - 100%
583   0   0
I love my units in 9mm and 45ACP, but am finding myself being drawn to the
38 super as a round that seems to slot neatly in between the other two.
I would appreciate other's thoughts, experience and opinions on this less than popular round.. and I mean apart from using it in an IPSC Open gun.
 
I shoot 38super for IPSC.

If you are looking to fill the slot between 9 and 45, get a 40S&W. Much more economical to play with than the super. Matter of fact, 38 super loaded to standard pressure is not that much different than 9mm.

What is the intended purpose?
 
I too use the .38 super. My main reason for getting it over a 9mm is frame and capacity.

I prefer the 1911 single stack frame, and flush mags. The .38 super gives me 10 rounds and feeds well from the mag. With the 9mm, I'm limited to 9 rounds.

As I reload, the only added cost is the cost of brass.
 
38 super is a good choise. Only one problem, the muzzel jump when you use max. loads. I have a single stack in this cal. and found I had to install a comp. to handle the max. loads that we all like to shoot. If I was looking for a round that was between 45 auto and 9mm I would go for the 40 S&W.
If you want to try a round that works like the 38 super, get a cheep 9mm barrel have it reamed to 9X21, fit it to your existing 9mm and go play. Other than springs you should not have to change anything else.

I do not have a single stack 9mm mag. But I do have a question. If the 38 super mag. will take 10, why does the 9mm mag only take 9? 10 rds. of 38 super takes up more room than 10 rds. of 9mm., the only differance on the mags. should be the lips, fallower and spring. Change the follower and spring to the 38 super parts and you should be able to get that 10th round in the 9mm mag. with room to spair.
 
Nor1 said:
38 super is a good choise. Only one problem, the muzzel jump when you use max. loads. I have a single stack in this cal. and found I had to install a comp. to handle the max. loads that we all like to shoot. If I was looking for a round that was between 45 auto and 9mm I would go for the 40 S&W.
If you want to try a round that works like the 38 super, get a cheep 9mm barrel have it reamed to 9X21, fit it to your existing 9mm and go play. Other than springs you should not have to change anything else.

I do not have a single stack 9mm mag. But I do have a question. If the 38 super mag. will take 10, why does the 9mm mag only take 9? 10 rds. of 38 super takes up more room than 10 rds. of 9mm., the only differance on the mags. should be the lips, fallower and spring. Change the follower and spring to the 38 super parts and you should be able to get that 10th round in the 9mm mag. with room to spair.
Click to expand...

Keep in mind that when loaded to the same OAL, 9x19 and 9x21 generate the the same amount of pressure with the same load. There is very little reason to rechamber. The 9x21 was a rule beater for IPSC, not a wonder cartridge.

The reason the .38 super can stuff an extra round into the mag compared to the 9x19 is just a function of case diameter ahead of the rim. The .38 super is a straight case .385 wide right down to the extractor groove. The 9x19 is .010 fatter and tapered from mouth to extractor groove.
 
joe-nwt wrote:
If you are looking to fill the slot between 9 and 45, get a 40S&W. Much more economical to play with than the super. Matter of fact, 38 super loaded to standard pressure is not that much different than 9mm.
Click to expand...

X2 I have an open gun in super as well. The biggest advantage over 9x19 is the super is more suitable for hotter loads, 170pf no problem. Loaded that hot is gonna be real snappy in a standard gun though, much more so than .40 at the same PF. The only other real advantage I can think of is, the longer super round is a better factory OAL than 9x19 for the 1911 and in theory should feed more reliably. However a properly tuned 1911 will run 9x19 flawlessly as well.

So other than the cool factor, in a standard 1911, the super round doesn't offer much over 9x19. .40 is probably the route for what you are after.

Dave
 
Last edited:
Onty said:
Why not 9x23; see http://www.burnscustom.com/ , scroll to INFORMATION and click on “All About 9x23”.
Click to expand...

Better question, Why Bother with 9x23?

About the only reason I could see going to that case is if Hi-caps were legal and the semi-rim of the super was creating a mag issue. Even at that, I'd likely go to super comp brass and stick with the same chamber.
 
Even better: 38 Super Comp

Canuck223 said:
Better question, Why Bother with 9x23?

About the only reason I could see going to that case is if Hi-caps were legal and the semi-rim of the super was creating a mag issue. Even at that, I'd likely go to super comp brass and stick with the same chamber.
Click to expand...


I might be wrong, but I think that the chamber isn't the same because Starline mentioned "RIMLESS". Headspace is… See http://www.starlinebrass.com/ , go to Starline Product Information & Descriptions. Please correct me...
 
Last edited:
D_ said:
They have ipsc in the nwt?

Just curious.

D_
Click to expand...

Well, our group is not as active as it once was. The section folded a few years ago as most of the people who made it what it was moved on. There is still a handful of people left though. You can usually catch me and a couple others from here flubbin' our way through nationals and alberta provincials from time to time.
 
Onty said:
I might be wrong, but I think that the chamber isn't the same because Starline mentioned "RIMLESS". Headspace is… See http://www.starlinebrass.com/ , go to Starline Product Information & Descriptions. Please correct me...
Click to expand...

The .38 super comp brass still headspaces off the case mouth like all .38 supers since the 1970's. The semi-rim of the super is eliminated and the case head is more like a .380 auto. It requires a re-tuned extractor to work, but the chamber is the same. For reloading, the .223 Rem/.380 auto shellplate is used.
 
Thanks for the thoughts...
I like the round because it seems a natural for a single stack..holds 10.versus
fewer with 9mm or 40S&W.
As I reload, it uses 9mm bullets...plentiful and wide selection, and you can tune it to 'mild' or 'wild'..depending on your goal.
I have recently picked up one of the S&W Performance Centre Doug Koenig
1911's... and it's a sweetheart...accurate, great trigger..a keeper!:D
 
Canuck223 said:
The 9x21 was a rule beater for IPSC, not a wonder cartridge.
Click to expand...

Not true. The 9x21 was developed for use in countries where it is unlawful for civilians to own firearms that chamber military cartridges; Italy, for example. It was never designed as a rule beater for IPSC.
 
Canuck223 said:
The .38 super comp brass still headspaces off the case mouth like all .38 supers since the 1970's. The semi-rim of the super is eliminated and the case head is more like a .380 auto. It requires a re-tuned extractor to work, but the chamber is the same. For reloading, the .223 Rem/.380 auto shellplate is used.
Click to expand...

Thanks Canuck for correction!!! I had it wrong….

If somebody could make rimless case that will have same base dia (.406) as standard 38 Super, slightly tapered toward front, this case should be close to strength of 9x23 and with internal space like 38 Super. When combined with .357 groove barrel so 357 bullets could be used, this could be superb semiauto cartridge. Well, now is just a pipe dream, but who knows, maybe one day…
 
Dragoon said:
Not true. The 9x21 was developed for use in countries where it is unlawful for civilians to own firearms that chamber military cartridges; Italy, for example. It was never designed as a rule beater for IPSC.
Click to expand...

Please re-read what I wrote. I didn't say it was designed for IPSC. It was however used to get around the ban in USPSA on 9x19 at major.
 
Last edited:
Onty said:
Thanks Canuck for correction!!! I had it wrong….

If somebody could make rimless case that will have same base dia (.406) as standard 38 Super, slightly tapered toward front, this case should be close to strength of 9x23 and with internal space like 38 Super. When combined with .357 groove barrel so 357 bullets could be used, this could be superb semiauto cartridge. Well, now is just a pipe dream, but who knows, maybe one day…
Click to expand...

I don't think you're loosing too much with quality .355-.356 diameter bullets over the semi jacketed or jacketed .357-358. Loaded in a supported chamber in quality +p thickness brass, you can load the .38 super and 9x23 plenty hot enough. If you want to go even hotter, you'd need to step up an order of magnitude and really increase the powder capacity like in a 9x25.

As my paper targets and steel plates are rarely impressed with bullet speed above 1400fps, the question has to be, why?

At one point, I though an MP-5 10mm version the FBI had would be super nifty in 9x25. Now i wonder if there is a point now that the short AR-15/M-16's are so popular.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom