Just recently purchased a webley bulldog .380. Now looking to reload for it, did some research as im just getting into antiques and reloading. As im aware the .380 webley or .380 rook is a the same dimensions as a .38 short colt except for the fact that the rim is thicker on the .38 short colt. So therefore i assume i have to thin out the rim on the .38 sc and reload it with blackpowder and some bullets. Anyone have some tips or info where to get this stuff/how to learn to reload for the .380 webley bulldog. Thanks in advance
.380 webley reloading
- Thread starter Nervvv
- Start date
I believe you will find your answers in the "The Hand loader's Manual of Cartridge Conversions (pg290)
Cartridge: .38 Smith & Wesson
Other names: .380/200 British, 38 Colt New Police
LOADING DATA:
Bullet: Wt/Type 150/Lead
Powder: 4.7 Unique (seems high)
Velocity ('Sec) 890
Source Barnes
Case PRep - Shellholder RCBS 5
Make from: .38 Special. Trim case to length, chamfer and F/L size. Case body will fireform, slightly, in the chamber.
etc...etc...etc
PM your emails and I will send you pics of the page or the manual. (your choice)
Cheers,
Cartridge: .38 Smith & Wesson
Other names: .380/200 British, 38 Colt New Police
LOADING DATA:
Bullet: Wt/Type 150/Lead
Powder: 4.7 Unique (seems high)
Velocity ('Sec) 890
Source Barnes
Case PRep - Shellholder RCBS 5
Make from: .38 Special. Trim case to length, chamfer and F/L size. Case body will fireform, slightly, in the chamber.
etc...etc...etc
PM your emails and I will send you pics of the page or the manual. (your choice)
Cheers,
Okay so this is what ive found. http://plimking.com/making-380-ammo-for-an-ancient-bulldog-pistol/
Lots of info there and videos. Still kind of confused as to what is the best solution. This is his conclusion as sourced from above link:
I therefore did some playing around. I made one load using a case only 1/2 inch long and loaded them with 4 grains lightly compressed of fff under a 77 grain bullet. I found the performance was about what you would expect and substantially identical to what Goex reports for a .32 Short Colt. I then trimmed some cases to 0.85″ and loaded 15 gr. of fff under a reversed 158 grain load. Oh my! This gives a very noticeable increase in noise, recoil and penetration. Can we say repeatedly blasts through 2″ inches of wood?
My little 140 year old Bulldog clone revolver just turned serious. This load seems to be a clone of the original BP load for the .38 Special as shown in the pistol cartridge PDF at http://www.goexpowder.com/load-chart.html
Can anyone sum that up for me as to the exact things i need to produce this.
Lots of info there and videos. Still kind of confused as to what is the best solution. This is his conclusion as sourced from above link:
I therefore did some playing around. I made one load using a case only 1/2 inch long and loaded them with 4 grains lightly compressed of fff under a 77 grain bullet. I found the performance was about what you would expect and substantially identical to what Goex reports for a .32 Short Colt. I then trimmed some cases to 0.85″ and loaded 15 gr. of fff under a reversed 158 grain load. Oh my! This gives a very noticeable increase in noise, recoil and penetration. Can we say repeatedly blasts through 2″ inches of wood?
My little 140 year old Bulldog clone revolver just turned serious. This load seems to be a clone of the original BP load for the .38 Special as shown in the pistol cartridge PDF at http://www.goexpowder.com/load-chart.html
Can anyone sum that up for me as to the exact things i need to produce this.
You need to be very careful with that little revolver. Mine needs a .359 "HEELED" bullet loaded into the case or the cartridge expands to much to fit into the chambers. These pistols are not nearly as strong as the later 1930s Webley and Enfield revolvers which are supposedly able to handle 9mm ammo in a pinch. I wouldn't dare do that with my little Webley No 5.
My best advice to you is to get in touch through a PM to "Jethunter"
My best advice to you is to get in touch through a PM to "Jethunter"
What did you end up using in your .380. I’m in the same boat now. Bought an old .380 by d d levaux. Closest thing that fits would be s&w. I dropped .38 sp in but it’s waaay too long.
Boolitcaster
CGN Regular
- Location
- Vancouver Island
I have a Belgian Bulldog in 380. I also have a 38 S&W in a more modern revolver.
For my 38 S&W, I am able load both 150 grain and 200 grain bullets with smokeless powder. There is ample reloading data available for loading the 38 S&W.
In my Bulldog, .358” - .361” bullets are far too small. I tried press fit .375” round balls over a number of different smokeless pistol powders with no success. Then I tried the same round balls over compressed black powder and that works great. Recoil can unseat the balls in the other rounds in the cylinder, so I just load and shoot one round at a time. I put a dab of lard in front of the loaded ball just as I would with one of my cap and ball revolvers. My brass for the Bulldog is shortened 38 Special cut to the same length as 38 S&W brass, which btw, also works well with the load.
Factory loads for the 38 S&W are deliberately lower powered due to the possibility of them being used in a lightly built top break "antique" or lesser quality steel revolver. You describe your experimental load as having lots of power, penetrating 2" of wood, and the load listed at the top of this thread is producing close to 900 fps. As you hopefully are not planning to carry the revolver for protection against four legged (or two legged) threats, you may want to consider protecting your own person from the possibility of the gun disintegrating in your hand by reducing your powder charge to about half of what the load at the top of this post string suggests. You can get adequate accuracy and safer fun with that pistol by using reloads charged with 1.9 to 2.3 grains of Bullseye behind 146 to 158 grain bullets. My 38/200 Victory model 38 S&W swing out cylinder model functions well without "pushing" the power factor of my loads. If you want more oomph safely, there are lots of modern choices available that won't risk you having to learn to write with your non-dominant hand. ;-) Best wishes.
There are 2 separate cartridges being cross-talked here.
The 380 webley used in the bulldog is a heeled bullet with about .380" diameter. It may be possible to use (shortened?) 38 S&W brass with rims turned down, but i have not confirmed. This cartridge was developed in the 1870s or 1880s.
The 380/200 Webley is a British military load using 38 S&W brass loaded with a non-heeled +/- .361" 200gr bullet. This cartridge was developed after ww1 and used in ww2.
The 380 webley used in the bulldog is a heeled bullet with about .380" diameter. It may be possible to use (shortened?) 38 S&W brass with rims turned down, but i have not confirmed. This cartridge was developed in the 1870s or 1880s.
The 380/200 Webley is a British military load using 38 S&W brass loaded with a non-heeled +/- .361" 200gr bullet. This cartridge was developed after ww1 and used in ww2.
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Take jethunter's advice on this.
Look the cartridges up online before you start feeding 38 S&W, or 38/200 cartridges into these fine old revolvers.
Use black powder loads that the cartridge and revolvers were built for, if you want the best results.
For those not familiar with "heeled" bullets, look them up, and you will see why you can't get away with regular bullets.
The best way is to slug the bore of your pistol, check cylinder diameters, etc and match things up.
For my Webly No5, I use 380 acp dies to make up ammunition for it. The 380 sizer die, works perfectly to size the case and case mouth to accept the heeled bullets I cast in my custom mold, and hold them with enough tension while firing.
Not enough tension or light crimp, and bullets will start to work out of the case, causing the cylinder to be jammed.
Bores in these pistols vary quite a bit, as to cylinder dimensions, so custom molds are a good way to go.
I've never seen hollow base, heeled bullets, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.
jethunter would know more about that.
I use 38S&W cases, which are a mixed lot.
I've turned the rims so their "thicknesses are the same, and they allow the cylinder to turn smoothly.
I also trim the length of the case just a bit for my pistol because the newer cases tend to be a bit long for the chambers in my pistol, but I've see a couple of Belgian made pistols that don't need any of this to be done.
Look the cartridges up online before you start feeding 38 S&W, or 38/200 cartridges into these fine old revolvers.
Use black powder loads that the cartridge and revolvers were built for, if you want the best results.
For those not familiar with "heeled" bullets, look them up, and you will see why you can't get away with regular bullets.
The best way is to slug the bore of your pistol, check cylinder diameters, etc and match things up.
For my Webly No5, I use 380 acp dies to make up ammunition for it. The 380 sizer die, works perfectly to size the case and case mouth to accept the heeled bullets I cast in my custom mold, and hold them with enough tension while firing.
Not enough tension or light crimp, and bullets will start to work out of the case, causing the cylinder to be jammed.
Bores in these pistols vary quite a bit, as to cylinder dimensions, so custom molds are a good way to go.
I've never seen hollow base, heeled bullets, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.
jethunter would know more about that.
I use 38S&W cases, which are a mixed lot.
I've turned the rims so their "thicknesses are the same, and they allow the cylinder to turn smoothly.
I also trim the length of the case just a bit for my pistol because the newer cases tend to be a bit long for the chambers in my pistol, but I've see a couple of Belgian made pistols that don't need any of this to be done.
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Interesting. When I dropped the 38 special in it was flush with the back of cylinder. I found a mold by “old west bullet molds” out of the USA. The mold makes heeled bullets that will fit the 38 special brass and the head of it is 375. Maybe a touch small but they also sell a plunger to make a hollow base In theory it should work and youre off to the races. I got one of the Belgian flavour I gotta cook up a recipe for.
I'm not surprised your pistol will accept a 38spl case, but it's too long and needs to be trimmed.
As for your rim thicknesses, be careful because that isn't a constant, even in the same batch of cases.
My Webley 380 will not accept a factory 38 S&W loaded round.
I have to trim the cases to length and turn down the rim thickness just to be sure they will work every time.
It won't accept any fired case that hasn't been resized.
As for your rim thicknesses, be careful because that isn't a constant, even in the same batch of cases.
My Webley 380 will not accept a factory 38 S&W loaded round.
I have to trim the cases to length and turn down the rim thickness just to be sure they will work every time.
It won't accept any fired case that hasn't been resized.
Ok. Thanks for the heads up on the rim thickness. I didn’t know they varied that much! I did know the cases were way too long. They stick out the other side of the cylinder on mine! lol
The case I put in was a fired 38spl. Must be some variance in the manufacturing back then if mine fit.
I’m always surprised they could make a nice 2.5mm bolt back then but the bores, and chambers vary. lol.
