38Special Wadcutter Shootoff!

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JohnnyMac

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I have been a Colt fan for years and had the opportunity to pick up a GCNM 38Mid Range. I jumped at the chance and was intrigued by the idea of shooting a 38 special wadcutter from a 1911. A short time later I discovered that Smith and Wesson also put out a semi-auto that fired the 38 special wadcutter and soon realized that there were many opinions out there that feel it is superior to the Colt. I had previously owned a Smith and Wesson 1066 and was very disappointed in the ergonomics and gritty trigger (sold that one a week after I bought it) so I was hesitant to try the 52, but when a model 52-1 came up on the EE I thought I’d give it a chance. When it showed up I could tell it was in a whole different league than the 1066. The slide to frame fit was super tight and the trigger was dare I say it "the best trigger I have ever felt"!

I’ve been meaning to compare the two side by side and finally got the chance today. Using Bullet Barn’s 148gr WC, I brought a few different loads (seating all projectiles backwards) using Trail Boss and Titegroup. The Trail Boss was all loaded to 2.2gr and there were two different loads made up with Tite Group, one with a charge of 2.8gr and another with 3.1gr. This was my first kick at the cat using these powders for this caliber so I am guessing there is much more accuracy to be squeezed out of these guns with a bit of load tuning. However I was anxious to compare the accuracy of the two and since this is the first time I've had them both at the range I figured I'd just roll with it.

I set up 2 targets side by side at 25 yards and fired one group of 10 with each gun from the bench (I was short on time as I was shooting over my lunch hour). This was done outside and conditions were breezy with the occasional heavy gust. At times my targets were moving slightly and to take pictures I had to put the roll of tape on the bottom of the targets to keep the bottoms from blowing around. Anyway here are the results:

Trailboss:

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2.8gr Titegroup:

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3.1gr Titegroup:

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Based on this tiny sample i would say in general I think the Colt shows that it is less picky around the loads it is fed. The 52-1 was starting to tighten up with the Tite Group at 3.1gr and I would be interested to try some loads around 2.9-3.2gr of Tite Group to see if there is a sweet spot for this 52-1. I would also like to do the same type of shootoff using loads with Bullseye and possibly W231 to see if there is much difference.

As a bonus I also brought a couple wheelguns as well and was able to test the Trail Boss load and happened to have 11 rounds of a Tite Group load at 2.7gr (you’ll see 6 shots for the 10-5 and only 5 shots on the 14-3 target). Here are the targets:

Trail Boss:

IMG_25373.JPG


2.7gr Tite Group:

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I have to admit I'm pretty impressed with the accuracy of the 10-5 (besides the flyer on the second target which was obviously my fault).

Overall a pretty fun day at the range. I'm hoping to get out and do some more side by side comparisons with some different powders, anyone have some favourite loads for 38 special wadcutters?
 
Great test and interesting observations. Those are all very nice guns imo. I've been eyeing a model 52. Hopefully in the future. Looks like a sight rib was added to yours or is that factory?
 
gdawg said:
Great test and interesting observations. Those are all very nice guns imo. I've been eyeing a model 52. Hopefully in the future. Looks like a sight rib was added to yours or is that factory?
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Yup it's a Bomar sight rib, which makes for a pretty nice sight picture.
 
Years ago I had SW 52 and it would shoot right with a couple of free pistols i had, I use to use 2.9 gr 231 win and it would shoot x ring at 25 yrs all day.
Wish I still had it.
 
Thanks very much for the advice guys, I think I am going to try a bit higher charge of TItegroup. I'll probably load some at 3.1, 3.2 and 3.3 and see how they do. I have a tiny bit of bullseye left and I think I will try a few loads at 2.8. i know that 52-1 can do better I just need to find that sweet spot. I like the idea of finding a load with 231 as well as I have about 10lbs sitting in my basement. I'll start at 2.9 and go from there.

Thanks again!
 
Funny that you seems to be getting better groups from the NM midrange. Years ago I did some Ransom-rest with mine.
- At 20y, they were pretty close (about 1" for the M52 and 1.25" for the NM)
- At 50y, the M52 was playing between 2.5"-3" while the NM was closer to the 4" mark.

My favourite load 3.3 win231 under a 148gr HC, Winchester primer, with a heavy roll crimp for the M52.
Oddly enough, the M52 would work great with IVI brass while the NM would act up with it :confused:
 
You must mean "first kick at the can." Right?
I fail to understand why you are loading all projectiles backwards???
With a quality 148grain HBFWC or a good cast bullet, a quality revolver with a 1 in 11" barrel twist can hold the 10 ring or better at 25 yards. Your first target appears more to be a 50 yard accuracy target. You could do a whole lot better!
 
3.5 grains of W231 or HP30 and a 148 hoolow base wad cutter will hold the X-ring on a 50 yard target
 
hatman1793 said:
You must mean "first kick at the can." Right?
I fail to understand why you are loading all projectiles backwards???
With a quality 148grain HBFWC or a good cast bullet, a quality revolver with a 1 in 11" barrel twist can hold the 10 ring or better at 25 yards. Your first target appears more to be a 50 yard accuracy target. You could do a whole lot better!
Click to expand...

What you don't kick cats? That surprises me. Yes first kick at the can, you're right. As for loading the projectiles backwards that was advice I got from Murray Charlton who's opinion I value. As for the first target with the 52-1 it isn't very good, for that matter the second one with the 52-1 isn't great either but I do notice that the group tightens up a bit with the third and I'll have to experiment a bit more with a few different recipes to see if I can get it dialed in a little better.
 
Not that it actually matters but just wondering if you shot the guns one handed PPC style or standard 2 handed?
The 148gr HBWC loading is a target load so purists may argue for the bullseye stance. The Bomar rib is also a PPC application (mostly!)
When I used to shoot 148gr handloads out of a 6" 586, I used 3.1-3.3grs. of Win231.
 
Still alive said:
Not that it actually matters but just wondering if you shot the guns one handed PPC style or standard 2 handed?
The 148gr HBWC loading is a target load so purists may argue for the bullseye stance. The Bomar rib is also a PPC application (mostly!)
When I used to shoot 148gr handloads out of a 6" 586, I used 3.1-3.3grs. of Win231.
Click to expand...

I actually shot these off a bench two handed. I've never shot much 1 handed outside of where I was directed to do so in competition or in training courses. Maybe worth a try for something different.
 
JohnnyMac said:
I actually shot these off a bench two handed. I've never shot much 1 handed outside of where I was directed to do so in competition or in training courses. Maybe worth a try for something different.
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One handed shooting is exhausting! Your arms move, forearms tense up, start shaking. You unconsciously start holding your breath etc. Takes a while to learn it. But it's good practice! Then for sh!ts and giggles, try it with your support hand.
BTW, nice P210 from your other post! I wanted to buy one at a gunshow but the $2k+ price tag held me back.
 
Still alive said:
One handed shooting is exhausting! Your arms move, forearms tense up, start shaking. You unconsciously start holding your breath etc. Takes a while to learn it. But it's good practice! Then for sh!ts and giggles, try it with your support hand.
BTW, nice P210 from your other post! I wanted to buy one at a gunshow but the $2k+ price tag held me back.
Click to expand...

Thanks the P210 is definitely a nice gun, way different feel than 1911's though which is what I am mostly used to shooting. As for one handed shooting I'll have to give it a try but would probably start out much closer than 25yards.
 
JohnnyMac said:
Thanks the P210 is definitely a nice gun, way different feel than 1911's though which is what I am mostly used to shooting. As for one handed shooting I'll have to give it a try but would probably start out much closer than 25yards.
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Under 25 yds, YES! Good call.
The weird thing about the 210 is the way the safety works and the scratch it leaves on the frame. But a natural pointer for sure. The trigger was not as light as I thought it would be. To be fair, the ones I held were ex-Swiss Mil guns so maybe light triggers were not encouraged!
 
Still alive said:
Under 25 yds, YES! Good call.
The weird thing about the 210 is the way the safety works and the scratch it leaves on the frame. But a natural pointer for sure. The trigger was not as light as I thought it would be. To be fair, the ones I held were ex-Swiss Mil guns so maybe light triggers were not encouraged!
Click to expand...

The trigger on mine is super light after the first "stage". What I don't like about the trigger is the distance you need to release it after firing for it to re-set. The other thing I notice for me is that compared to my 1911's it seems to naturally point low for me. Not a real huge problem just different. Besides that it is a super accurate and well made gun.
 
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