3rd Generation Colt Revolver?
- Thread starter dixda
- Start date
Hi
Was thinking about getting one mysel, checked out a Bp FORUM on cap and ball revolvers and the general conensus is they range from garbage to pure junk.The
timing and the fit of parts are to be watched.One thing they said was don t but one sight unseen.
Jeff
Was thinking about getting one mysel, checked out a Bp FORUM on cap and ball revolvers and the general conensus is they range from garbage to pure junk.The
timing and the fit of parts are to be watched.One thing they said was don t but one sight unseen.
Jeff
- Location
- Regina, SK
Dixda:
I have several 3rd generation colts (.357, 44-40, and 45 LC) - they are made in the US. Am more a collector than a shooter - but haven't had any problems with them.
If you are going to do a lot of shooting with your single action - the Ruger Vaquero is probably a better deal - they seem to hold up well (don't own one - just from what people say) and are cheaper.
Shooter's Choice has a New Frontier model (SAA with the adjustable sights in 45 LC for $895.). This is a decent price - but resale on the new frontiers is a bit difficult (purists don't like the adjustable sights).
http://www.shooterschoice.com/used guns/antique.htm
Otherwise a used Colt SAA will cost you in the 1200-1400 range (depends on condition). They don't seem to last long on the gun boards - they sell quickly.
If you really want a conversation piece - find a 1st generation SAA - they are out there -expensive - but its neat to hold something that was used on the frontier. One of the members emailed me a pic of a SAA found in Dawson City - if that six-shooter could talk!
Rick
I have several 3rd generation colts (.357, 44-40, and 45 LC) - they are made in the US. Am more a collector than a shooter - but haven't had any problems with them.
If you are going to do a lot of shooting with your single action - the Ruger Vaquero is probably a better deal - they seem to hold up well (don't own one - just from what people say) and are cheaper.
Shooter's Choice has a New Frontier model (SAA with the adjustable sights in 45 LC for $895.). This is a decent price - but resale on the new frontiers is a bit difficult (purists don't like the adjustable sights).
http://www.shooterschoice.com/used guns/antique.htm
Otherwise a used Colt SAA will cost you in the 1200-1400 range (depends on condition). They don't seem to last long on the gun boards - they sell quickly.
If you really want a conversation piece - find a 1st generation SAA - they are out there -expensive - but its neat to hold something that was used on the frontier. One of the members emailed me a pic of a SAA found in Dawson City - if that six-shooter could talk!
Rick
A buddy has an 1851 Navy that his ex-father-in-law gave him. It was found, while out hunting,in an old cabin up in the rafters. The wedge is missing and there is a little pitting on the side that it was laying on. He said that I have first refusal when he plans to sell. It's all I can do not to hound him about it.LOL,KD
hi
If you want some info on the 3rd generation colts try the Graybeard Outdoor forum.They have a cap and ball forum and there is a thread about the 3rd generation colts on there.By The general belief is the cap ball colt 1st sec and third were made by uberti (parts )and assembled by colt in the states
If you want some info on the 3rd generation colts try the Graybeard Outdoor forum.They have a cap and ball forum and there is a thread about the 3rd generation colts on there.By The general belief is the cap ball colt 1st sec and third were made by uberti (parts )and assembled by colt in the states
Rick, I think you are confusing 3rd gen SAA's and 3rd gen blackpowder revolvers marketed by Colt back in the 80's (1851 Navy, 1860 Army, Walker, etc). I too believe that these are Uberti guns assembled here, as Colt's tooling for these was destroyed decades ago. I have one of the 3rd gen 1860 Army revolvers, it seems to be of the same quality as the better imports. FWIW - dan
- Location
- Regina, SK
Whoops - Sorry Dan and Dixda -
When I saw the 3rd gen. - I thought of SAA - always get overexcited when thinking about colts!
Rick
When I saw the 3rd gen. - I thought of SAA - always get overexcited when thinking about colts!
Rick
rickruddell said:
This is no more true than to say that Hondas are made in Canada.
A more truthful statement is that ALL 2nd and 3rd Gen Colts are made by Uberti and ASSEMBLED in the US.
some say the US assembled Uberti Colts are better fit and finished than plain Ubertis, I am not one of those people.
IMHO, if talking 1873's, the Beretta Stampede is a step above the plain Uberti because despite being made by Uberti (Uberti is owned by Beretta), the Stampedes have a transfer bar safety and better case hardening. The Colts are just Uberti guns assembled by Americans with Joe Jobs making unionized wages, while the Uberti branded guns are made by Italians with Joe Jobs making significantly less money than their American counterparts.
Ya pays for the Pony, now - as always.
If you buy to shoot, just get an Uberti. If you buy to have "a real Colt" and drink Coolaid, get the Colt 3G.
Truth be told I own several Colt products and like them, but they are no better than their rebadged equivalents :wink:
3rd Gen Colts are still Uberti? I don't doubt you Claven, its just that all I've ever read about them is how awesome they are because they're made by American workers, in American factories, breathing American air, etc... you know what I mean.
Yessir! Uberti all the way, but assembled and finished in the USA. Colt does NOT have 1873SAA or ANY CnB machinery left. It was destroyed in a fire many years ago. They contract out to the land of Pizza & Spaghetti
EDIT: The CnB machinery was destroyed in the 1800's. The 1873 machinery was worn out in the early 1970's during the 2nd gen run. Colt retooled for the third gen - many people feel a quality drop ensued as they were no longer hand fitted in as many areas due to the new "modern machinery" and its "better" tolerances.
Colt still makes the 1873 in-house along with the Colt Cowboy (which is more like a Ruger Vaquero internally than a SAA).
Colt's CnB's ARE Uberti made parts though.
EDIT: The CnB machinery was destroyed in the 1800's. The 1873 machinery was worn out in the early 1970's during the 2nd gen run. Colt retooled for the third gen - many people feel a quality drop ensued as they were no longer hand fitted in as many areas due to the new "modern machinery" and its "better" tolerances.
Colt still makes the 1873 in-house along with the Colt Cowboy (which is more like a Ruger Vaquero internally than a SAA).
Colt's CnB's ARE Uberti made parts though.
The tale of the 2nd Generation Colt black-powder line actually began in the late 1950s with Val Forgett, founder of Navy Arms, and Italian gunmakers Vittorio Gregorelli and Aldo Uberti. They chose the Colt 1851 Navy as the first percussion revolver to be reproduced in Italy in 1958.
After a dozen years and thousands of Colt reproductions, the success of the Italian-made '51 Navy--which Aldo Uberti frequently supplied to filmmaker Sergio Lione and Clint Eastwood for early spaghetti westerns--had finally come to the attention of the company that invented it.
There have been countless tales how Colt's dusted off the old tooling from the 1851 and began manufacturing new guns at Hartford, which would have been very interesting had the tooling not been destroyed when a fire razed most of the factory on Feb. 4, 1864. As for the tooling used to make the later percussion models produced through 1873, it was simply discarded over the years, so Colt's could never have brought back the 1851 Navy, or any other percussion era model had it not been for Forgett, Uberti and, ultimately, Lou Imperato.
Imperato, who founded Colt Blackpowder Arms Co. in 1993 (which produced the 3rd Generation Colt Blackpowder line through 2002), recalls that Forgett sold Colt's the components (rough castings) to build the first 2nd Generation 1851 Navy revolvers, which were completed at the Hartford factory from 1971 through 1973. The first C Series 1851 Navy repros included the now collectible Grant and Lee Navy sets. However, late in 1973 Colt's decided to seek a new supplier of components and the following year Lou Imperato, its largest American distributor, took over.
The company's enthusiasm for the percussion revolvers was obvious in its decision to place the new Third Model Dragoon on the cover of its 1974 sales catalog. The Dragoon and Navy models were listed along with the Python, Detective Special, Cobra, Agent, Diamondback, Trooper MKIII, Official Police MKIII, Lawman MKIII, 1873 Peacemaker Single Action Army models, and semi-autos. Unfortunately, labor disputes delayed the Dragoon in 1974, causing Colt's to take the unprecedented step of re-announcing the Dragoon model in 1975, when deliveries actually began.
The entire 2nd Generation series produced from 1971 to 1982 consisted of (from top left, counter-clockwise) the 1851 Navy 1860 Army with rebated cylinder, 1860 Army with fluted cylinder, 1861 Navy, 1862 Pocket Police, 1848 Baby Dragoon, 1862 Pocket Navy, Third Model Dragoon, Second Model Dragoon, First Model Dragoon and 1847 Walker (center).
The relationship with Imperato continued until Colt's discontinued the first series of percussion revolvers in 1976. This, however, was not the end of the black-powder line.
In 1973 Lou Imperato had purchased the Iver Johnson Arms Company in Fitchburg, Massachusetts. A year after Colt's discontinued the black-powder line, Imperato moved the Iver Johnson works to Middlesex, New Jersey, and approached Colt's with the idea of producing an entire line of black-powder pistols, which the Italians had been doing successfully since the late 1950s. He came in with both barrels blazing, so to speak, reprimanding Colt's management. "[They're] your guns and everyone else is getting rich on them and you're not out there." He showed them a display of various black-powder models and they were once again intrigued--but as before, had no way of manufacturing. The timing could not have been better for Imperato. He signed a deal with Colt's and Iver Johnson to produce a new line of black-powder models.
It was in Middlesex that all F Series standard production models were manufactured as The Authentic Colt Blackpowder Series. These new F Series 2nd Generation models came in black cardboard boxes with dark gray foam rubber inserts and featured Sam Colt's portrait and signature on the lid and end label.
Unlike their first arrangement, Imperato was now responsible for the entire production of Colt black-powder models. "They were all hand-fitted. There was no way to do mass production," explains Imperato. "We had the barrels, cylinders and backstraps cast in Italy (as Forgett had done), but we finished them off in-house. We made the frames, the center pins, nipples, all of the screws, springs, and built every F Series gun at Iver Johnson Arms. We even used the old style color-case hardening method with the charcoal and bone meal, and Colt's exclusive Colt Blue Finish. They turned out pretty good. In fact, I think our finishes were actually better than Colt's single actions being done in Hartford."
Under the subcontractor agreement to produce 2nd Generation percussion models, Imperato's responsibilities were to manufacture the revolvers to Colt's strict specifications, then ship the finished product to its Hartford facilities. Colt's then performed final inspection and shipped the revolvers to distributors. This is why Colt historical letters for 2nd Generation percussion revolvers contain exactly the same type of information one finds in letters for original percussion models, Single Action Armys and other models.
Somewhat out of historical sequence, Colt's skipped the First and Second Model Dragoons (later introduced in 1980), and following the 1851 Navy and Third Model Dragoon, next brought out the popular 1860 Army model in November, 1978.
Sam Colt designed the original 1860 Army to be nearly the same size as the 1851 Navy, but in .44, with nearly as much punch as a Dragoon. Colt used the same basic frame as the Navy, but with a slightly longer backstrap and grip, a new rebated cylinder (milled larger in diameter approximately three-quarters of an inch forward of the breech to allow for the larger caliber), and a beautifully contoured, round 8-inch barrel. Bearing the same roll-engraved battle scene as the '51 Navy, it was an immediate success.
"Approximately 129,000 Model 1860 revolvers were issued to U.S. troops for Civil War service--several thousand of them equipped with an attachable shoulder stock, an accessory to allow firing the arm as a carbine," says Colt historian and author R. L. Wilson. "The U.S. government purchased more 1860 Army revolvers than any other model of Colt or any other make of black-powder revolver. This was the staple handgun of the Civil War, and played the same role in the Plains Indian wars, until succeeded by the Colt Peacemaker .45...in 1873."
Some 200,500 1860 Armys were manufactured, making it the third-highest production Colt up to that time.
The Colt black-powder 2nd Generation reprise of the 1860 Army remained in production until 1982 and was offered in a variety of models. The original 1860 style with rebated cylinder was manufactured from November 1978 to November 1982; also with an electroless nickel finish in 1982; with a fluted cylinder from July 1980 through October 1981; and in stainless steel from January 1982 to April 1982.
Colt's also produced a number of special edition Army models. One series was commissioned by the Hodgdon Powder Company in 1979 to commemorate the Butterfield Overland Stage. This was limited to 500 guns with a shortened 51⁄2-inch barrel, and came with an extra cylinder in a French book-style case. Another dozen 1860 Armys were finished in bright nickel and fitted with ivory stocks in 1984. A total of 3001 U.S. Cavalry 200th Anniversary double pistol sets, cased with a shoulder stock and accessories, were produced beginning in 1977. In 1979 a series of 500 cased 1860 Army models were built, and in 1980 a special Interstate Edition of 200 guns, making the Army the most varied of the 2nd Generation.
[...]
The 2nd Generation production came to an end in 1982, bringing to a close another interesting chapter in the history of Colt's.
Taken from http://www.gunsandammomag.com/ga_handguns/cap_ball/index.html
One thing I am wrong about though is the Colt 1873 SAA - it is aparently still made by Colt
Sorry for the mis-info. http://www.popularmechanics.com/outdoors/firearms/1277316.html?page=2&c=y
