40-65 WCF Bullet testing with Black Powder

oldrodder

oldrodder

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A BIG shout-out to Iron Cat who graciously provided 20 Paper Patched boolits for me to test. More on these later!

My last 2 visits at the range were spent testing boolits with Holy Black, something entirely new for me. I tested the same 4 boolits that were used in the smokeless powder tests. I used 2 different brands of powder: Olde Eynsford 1 1/2 Fg
and Goex FFg.
Loading protocol: All cases used were fired, unsized.
All charges were weighed, dropped into the case thru a 24" drop tube.
All charges were compressed with a compression die to allow hand seating the boolit to the correct COL.
A slight taper crimp was applied.

Shooting protocol:
From a clean bore, 1 fouling shot was fired.
A dry, tight fitting patch was pushed through the barrel between each shot.
A short cooling period between each 5 shot string.

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So far, the Snover bullet shows the most promise.
More to come.
Many thanks to those who offered advice and/or comments. All input is much appreciated.

PS: I was supposed to shoot 5 shots per target.....a few have 4 holes and others have 6 holes, because I shot the wrong target! Blaming it on 76 yr old eyes!!!
 
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6 shots on one target?? That is a yellow card for you, Mister, don't let it happen again or the shoot director will be notified and you will be DQ'D!:HR::p LOL
AND I AGREE, the Snovers worked super in my last 40/65 as well.
I am not sure who made my custom greaser mold, but I shot a 5 shot group at 100 yesterday with it that was under an inch, first time for those bullets.
Normally I have had better accuracy with the PPB'S , but I added a grease cookie to the load and it seems to work well.
Cat
 
iron cat said:
That Buck's bullet show great potential as well, the weather report could be shooter error?
Cat
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There's no doubt that my old eyes are playing a part with group sizes in this case. At my last visit to my Ophthalmologist, he told me that I have a "hole" starting to form behind my left retina. He said surgery is an option but the results are not guaranteed! Next assessment is in 4 months.
 
What are using for a wad under the bullet? I use a .060" veggie wad under the bullet and a news paper disk over the primer flash hole under the powder. Powder volume you will have to shoot to see what it likes best. Same as how far out before the lands to place the bullet. I anneal all my cases every ten reloads. I also do not resize my cases, I drop my depriming rod down and raise the die do I do not resize the cases. I bell the case mouth just enough to get the bullet into the case. I do not crimp but use a little neck tension to hold the bullet in place and take the bell out. I use 53gr of Swiss 3F and now trying out Olde E 2F as well with a lot of promise. Good luck....Welcome to the Holy Smoke
 
MC One Shot said:
What are using for a wad under the bullet? I use a .060" veggie wad under the bullet and a news paper disk over the primer flash hole under the powder. Powder volume you will have to shoot to see what it likes best. Same as how far out before the lands to place the bullet. I anneal all my cases every ten reloads. I also do not resize my cases, I drop my depriming rod down and raise the die do I do not resize the cases. I bell the case mouth just enough to get the bullet into the case. I do not crimp but use a little neck tension to hold the bullet in place and take the bell out. I use 53gr of Swiss 3F and now trying out Olde E 2F as well with a lot of promise. Good luck....Welcome to the Holy Smoke
Click to expand...

Cases fired in my rifle don't require "belling" just a slight chamfering to allow the bullet to slide in the case by hand. I use a .060" veggie wad as well. I need to make a punch to punch out newspaper wads. I remove the depriming rod from the sizing die to put a little neck tension on the bullet as well. The bullet spins freely, just hard to pull out. I have some Goex 3Fg that I will try. When determining the charge, how much of an increase do you use? My bullets are powdercoated clear, lubed with SPG and sized to .410". My groove diameter is .4085" Thank you for your advice.
 
Mine requires a slight bell for .410. I can get away with chamfer for .409 and .408. I try every 2.5 grains look at what is promising then go very grain. Take a case that may be to short or a 45-70 case, put it mouth first in a chuck, spin it and file the rim off. Drill out the flash hole larger so you can put a rod through. Turn the case around and put the base in the chuck. Chamfer the mouth. I used to use a plastic cutting board. Now drill your newspaper with the case. Clean out frequently. I now have punches for it all.
 
Whelp,I have resigned myself to the fact that my PPB's are not nearly as consistent for hunting than my greasers are in my 40/65.
I tried a slightly heavier paper last night, and the PPB's shot the same, accurate from a clean barrel, but not reliable for a second or third shot without making sure there is no paper ring .
I am not about to start dragging a cleaning rod with me on the hunt , so the greased bullets are getting the nod!
Even without cleaning I can quickly put three into about 2MOA at 200m meters with them, and I am happy with that.
The other paper I tried was debit receipt paper, and it does work well, and is easy to prepare, the PPB's need to be cleaned every shot.
Cat
 
I use tracing paper for my Paper patch bullets. Every bit as accurate as greasers, but I do wipe after every shot. Three actually, two wet and one dry. Can't be in a hurry at all, but then I don't have to scrub lead out either. Works for me.
 
My limited experience with PP bullets mirrors Iron Cat's. I've paper patched 30 cal for 30-30, .303Br., 8X58 RDK, 38-55, 40-65, .43 Spanish, 45-70, .45-90 The results were...meh! Some groups were amazing while the next group was more a pattern than a group. To avoid leading with greasers or PP, I powder coat EVERYTHING!!!!!
As for patching paper, I still have a little 9 lb. onionskin that I got from BACO. also use tracing paper and 9lb. onionskin from Staple's. I patch "wet" with saliva.
 
I have found that for best results using black powder and Paper Patch bullets is to use a maximum load. Stuff as much in that case as possible.
 
ryan said:
I have found that for best results using black powder and Paper Patch bullets is to use a maximum load. Stuff as much in that case as possible.
Click to expand...

How much compression would you recommend Min/Max? The bullet takes up 1/2 to 5/8" of room in the case, so if you start out with a full case, dropped down a 24" drop tube, that should buy you 1/8-3/16" of room. Add the veggie wad, you would still need 7/16 to 1/2" of compression, would you agree/disagree? Any advice is much appreciated!
 
oldrodder said:
How much compression would you recommend Min/Max? The bullet takes up 1/2 to 5/8" of room in the case, so if you start out with a full case, dropped down a 24" drop tube, that should buy you 1/8-3/16" of room. Add the veggie wad, you would still need 7/16 to 1/2" of compression, would you agree/disagree? Any advice is much appreciated!
Click to expand...

When I suggest a full case, I would fill it with a regular funnel, not a drop tube, and might compress anywhere from .250 to .400

I load my cases flush with the case mouth, I use a wad stack with a .060 wad, .250 grease cookie, and a .030 wad.

I use a bore diameter patched bullet that I breech seat in the chamber. I just drop the bullet down in there, and the case shoves it in the rest of the way.

I don't resize cases at all, the only thing I use the press for is powder compression.

I copied that from a guy on the cast boolits forum. He spent years perfecting his load system, and so I went with that, and it worked good for me too.
 
ryan said:
When I suggest a full case, I would fill it with a regular funnel, not a drop tube, and might compress anywhere from .250 to .400

I load my cases flush with the case mouth, I use a wad stack with a .060 wad, .250 grease cookie, and a .030 wad.

I use a bore diameter patched bullet that I breech seat in the chamber. I just drop the bullet down in there, and the case shoves it in the rest of the way.

I don't resize cases at all, the only thing I use the press for is powder compression.

I copied that from a guy on the cast boolits forum. He spent years perfecting his load system, and so I went with that, and it worked good for me too.
Click to expand...

Thanks Ryan. I printed your method and I will try it for sure.
 
ryan said:
When I suggest a full case, I would fill it with a regular funnel, not a drop tube, and might compress anywhere from .250 to .400

I load my cases flush with the case mouth, I use a wad stack with a .060 wad, .250 grease cookie, and a .030 wad.
.
Click to expand...

Umpteen years ago, I thought that compressed black powder would be like scotch whiskey ---- if a little is good then a lot is better. Not so; that did not work out at all well. I used a drop tube then put a short steel plug in the mouth of the case and a 7/8 bolt in the loading press and really scrunched the powder down using the loading press. The majority of the bullets hit about 1 foot low at 100 yards. Too much compression creates a large briquet and slows the burn rate down considerably

cheers mooncoon
 
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