40 s&w 190gr. cmj and titegroup Help Please (what data to use)

J

j_sublime49

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Hello,

Forgive me if this has been discussed (no luck with my search). was not able to find any info for a 190 gr. with Titegroup either here or in the manuals (lyman and Lee). I am set up for 4.5 gr. Titegroup for a 180gr. cmj, and I was looking to find out where a safe starting point would be without going too light or hot.... or is the 10 gr. not much of a factor? (sorry if This is a dumb question)

Any help would be appreciated,

J
 
Last edited:
J,

My manual lists 4.5 of red dot giving 830fps as a start grains load for 190 jacketed. Never exceed is 4.9 grains at 895fps, you need 900fps for 171PF.

Red dot is the next slower powder on the burn rate chart after titegroup so this should be a good place to start.

Amer-select, which is the next faster powder on the burn rate chart lists 4.5 at 862 and 4.7 at 895 as start and never exceed respectively.

1.130 is min oal for both.

Use at your own risk dude,

V7
 
Fastest 190 I see is N340 min 5.0 max 5.6 max giving 870 fps. That's in Lyman.

In the Speer manual I have titegroup data for a 180gr:

min 4.0 for 793 max 4.7 for 917

Titegroup data for 165gr:

min 5.0 for 957 max 5.4 for 1035

If you want to do the guesswork I'll leave that to you... I would think that 4.5 is pretty close to a max load with a 190.
 
thank's for the help guys, I might try and send a line out to hodgdon and see what they have to offer....

Again I appreciate the help and input.

J
 
Go to the Hodgdon data page listed in the "Sticky", they don't have the 190 gr bullet but you can compare between a 180 and a 200. The 200 starts at 3.4 grs.
 
My Hodgdon printed manual lists MAXIMUM of 3.8 gr. Titegroup with a 200 gr. Hornady XTP. OAL is 1.125" Velocity is 822 fps from a 4" barrel.

Problem with going past 180 gr. in the 40S&W is the length of the bullet. Speer 13 says:
We are often asked for loading data for the Speer 200 gr. TMJ in the 40S&W. When seated to the proper OAL the bullet heel is so deep in the case that sidewall bulges often develop with resulting failures to feed or chamber. Velocities are also quite low, so we don't recommend this bullet for the 40S&W.
Click to expand...

Lyman 48th lists for a 190 gr. JFP but not with Titegroup and all the other powders give quite low velocities. Highest was 870 fps. with most others in the 720 range.

If you are loading for IPSC major you will need a minimum of 895 fps and none of the listed loads will meet that with a 4" barrel. 5" barrel might get close with the best powder but still doesn't give much room to spare! I would stick with 180 gr.

What are you loading for anyway? Why 190gr.?


Fudd
 
Thank's for the heads up gent's and also for the 200gr. info Fudd.

I had good plinking success with the 180's/4.5gr TG and when I went back to get more they only had 190's. So now i'm stuck with them and have no load data for them. This is just for the range in my g22. I think I might try HS6 or unique cuz I have data for them. We'll see what Hodgdon has to say.

Again thank you all for your help.

J
 
The extra 10gr bullet weight is a factor because of BOTH the weight and also because of the reduced case volume, when loaded to the same OAL.

A starting load midway between data for 180 and 200 will get you in the right ballpark. I used this same method when developing a 9mm load for 137gr bullets and Tightgroup, and confirmed my loads with a Hodgdon tech.
 
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