40 Smith and Wesson, Campro 165gr, TiteGroup

[hr.rage]

I have a Lee Precision 4 hole turret press and would like to start reloading in .40 S&W. As for components, I have CamPro .40/10mm 165gr SH FCP bullets, TiteGroup powder, Federal small primers, and once fired mixed casings (Federal, Speer, Win).

If I plan to use my Lee auto-disk powder dispenser, the two sizes are .40cc & .43cc and they dispense 4.7 and 5.1 grains respectively. CamPro recommends 4.6-5.1gr of TiteGroup.

Is there anything wrong with my component selection and using 4.7 grains of powder?

 

[dakotamar]

if the range is 4.6-5.1, i would say you are good to go with the .40cc. Lee also makes an adjustable disk you can put in the dispenser if you want to work it up. I don't know how well titegroup dispenses, you may want to check the weight that is being thrown every once and a while until you are sure it is consistent.

 

[hr.rage]

if the range is 4.6-5.1, i would say you are good to go with the .40cc. Lee also makes an adjustable disk you can put in the dispenser if you want to work it up. I don't know how well titegroup dispenses, you may want to check the weight that is being thrown every once and a while until you are sure it is consistent.

I'd have to verify, but I might actually have the adjustable disc. I was given a Dillon 650 in addition to the Lee, but I don't have any Dillon dies. Thank you for the advice on keeping an eye on the powder throw.

I have an area of concern regarding my casings, this attached photo doesn’t really capture it but most of my cases have a dent from my M&P 40 that I thought a bulge out kit would remove but doesn’t. What can be done to correct the issue and should I be concerned? The attached photo is of all three brands.

 

[dakotamar]

I'd have to verify, but I might actually have the adjustable disc. I was given a Dillon 650 in addition to the Lee, but I don't have any Dillon dies. Thank you for the advice on keeping an eye on the powder throw.

I have an area of concern regarding my casings, this attached photo doesn’t really capture it but most of my cases have a dent from my M&P 40 that I thought a bulge out kit would remove but doesn’t. What can be done to correct the issue and should I be concerned? The attached photo is of all three brands.

I barely see a dent the the first one, 3/4 of the way up. small dents inward like this should not pose a problem and will not be taken out by the sizing die. bulge kits are for taking a bulge out of the bottom of portion of the brass, outward bulge. the little dent in the top part of the brass may expand out once you seat a bullet. once you finnish making your round use a chamber checker to see if the round is made to spec. you can also REMOVE the barrel from your pistol and drop them in to see if they freely fall into the chamber.

 

[hr.rage]

I barely see a dent the the first one, 3/4 of the way up. small dents inward like this should not pose a problem and will not be taken out by the sizing die. bulge kits are for taking a bulge out of the bottom of portion of the brass, outward bulge. the little dent in the top part of the brass may expand out once you seat a bullet. once you finnish making your round use a chamber checker to see if the round is made to spec. you can also REMOVE the barrel from your pistol and drop them in to see if they freely fall into the chamber.

Please accept my apologies for the awful picture. The dent in the other two brands is impossible to capture, but the one on the left is federal. Perhaps I hoped the bulge kit would shape the casing a little. In order to verify the tolerances before I take them to the range, I plan to order several cartridge gauges in different calibres.

 

[ted_dent]

Cases are fine to reload as is. Minor dents like those won't cause any issues.

My only comment regarding your load is that depending on your gun and what weight of recoil spring it has, something close to a starting load (yours is only .1 grain above starting) MAY not consistently cycle the action. However, the only way to find out is to load some up and give them a try.

Typically when I'm experimenting with low starting charge weights I only load 10-15 rounds. That way if they do not cycle the action I don't have a bunch that I have to strip apart or shoot and manually cycle the action to eject the empties.

As for cartridge gauges, to expand on what dakotamar noted, the best gauge you can use is your barrel. Gauges are normally made to SAAMI specs but barrels are not always so. I have seen loads that would fit a SAAMI spec gauge but would not fit in the gun's chamber. If the cartridges drop completely into your barrel chamber (i.e. they pass the 'plunk test') you know they will chamber when you fire the gun.

 

[hr.rage]

Cases are fine to reload as is. Minor dents like those won't cause any issues.

I suppose I could use the dents to track how many times the case has been reloaded and fired from my M&P

My only comment regarding your load is that dependingf on your gun and what weight of recoil spring it has, something close to a starting load (yours is only .1 grain above starting) MAY not consistently cycle the action. However, the only way to find out is to load some up and give them a try.

Typically when I'm experimenting with low starting charge weights I only load 10-15 rounds. That way if they do not cycle the action I don't have a bunch that I have to strip apart or shoot and manually cycle the action to eject the empties.

I like my .40s&w's, so hopefully I won't need multiple loads and can find one that works for all of them.

As for cartridge gauges, to expand on what dakotamar noted, the best gauge you can use is your barrel. Gauges are normally made to SAMMI specs but barrels are not always so. I have seen loads that would fit a SAMMI spec gauge but would not fit in the gun's chamber. If the cartridges drop completely into your barrel chamber (i.e. they pass the 'plunk test') you know they will chamber when you fire the gun.

I appreciate your input regarding the size differences between the requirements and what we really observe in the field.

I'll measure it with a cartridge gauge and see how it fits in the freestanding barrels. Also I kind of want to buy a $135 insize precision measuring kit from the local pawn shop, but I see most people get by with cheaper calipers.

 

[ted_dent]

I like my .40s&w's, so hopefully I won't need multiple loads and can find one that works for everyone.

A hotter load should function with any gun. I just don't load my rounds hot because:
1. how fast does it have to be going to put a hole in a sheet of paper?
2. it just wears the gun out faster.

I normally set up my loads to the lowest level that will dependably feed and eject the rounds.

I appreciate your input regarding the size differences between the requirements and what we really observe in the field.

I'll measure it with a cartridge gauge and see how it fits in the freestanding barrels. Also I kind of want to buy a $135 insize precision measuring kit from the local pawn shop, but I see most people get by with cheaper calipers.

Nothing is more frustrating than loading up a bunch of rounds that won't chamber. I love my CZs but they seem to frequently be 'short chambered' and SAAMI spec ammo won't always fit, especially with certain bullet designs.
Ask me how I know.

 

[hr.rage]

A hotter load should function with any gun. I just don't load my rounds hot because:
1. how fast does it have to be going to put a hole in a sheet of paper?
2. it just wears the gun out faster.

I normally set up my loads to the lowest level that will dependably feed and eject the rounds.

Unfortunately, less wear is now a concern. I can always fallback to manual weighing the powder to find the correct load if I don't have the adjustable disk dakotamar mentioned, until I get one or switch to my Dillon.

Ask me how I know.

We'd love to hear if you have an interesting or humorous story

 

[ted_dent]

Unfortunately, less wear is now a concern. I can always fallback to manual weighing the powder to find the correct load if I don't have the adjustable disk dakotamar mentioned, until I get one or switch to my Dillon.

I have the adjustable disk (actually it's an adjustable bar) but I'm not too keen on it. It probably works OK with heavier charges (4 grains & up) but I was using it with lighter charges (around 3 grains) and I got fairly frequent squibs. it seems that the shape of the opening (it's more rectangular than round) is susceptible to powder bridging with light charges of powder so occasionally I would only get a 1/2 or 2/3s charge. This doesn't seem to be any issue with bigger charges.

An alternative would be to slightly enlarge the .40cc opening in the disk to give you more than 4.7 but less than 5.1. Before I did that, however, I would try the 4.7 gr. load. It may work just fine and make the whole powder charge issue moot.

 

[hr.rage]

I have the adjustable disk (actually it's an adjustable bar) but I'm not too keen on it. It probably works OK with heavier charges (4 grains & up) but I was using it with lighter charges (around 3 grains) and I got fairly frequent squibs. it seems that the shape of the opening (it's more rectangular than round) is susceptible to powder bridging with light charges of powder so occasionally I would only get a 1/2 or 2/3s charge. This doesn't seem to be any issue with bigger charges.

An alternative would be to slightly enlarge the .40cc opening in the disk to give you more than 4.7 but less than 5.1. Before I did that, however, I would try the 4.7 gr. load. It may work just fine and make the whole powder charge issue moot.

I definitely do not want frequent squibs

I'll keep a vigilant eye on the powder throw until I get the die to use the powder check on my other press.

Which brings me to this question, is there a way to do quality control on batches of let's say 50-100? For example, do an inspection and review of every round if the lot is -/+ 10 grains out of spec or are factory tolerances so wide that it would be impossible to measure with that much precision.

 

[hatman1793]

40S&W is a much maligned cartridge. People shun it because the standard 180 grain bullet has issues. But the same improvement in 9mm bullet technology improvements spilled over to 40S&W.
135-140-155-165 grain 40 S&W bullets have seen incredible improvements. Where 9mm shooters have delighted in 147 grain sub-sonic bullets, 40S&W 155 grain bullets easily achieve 10mm velocities. I would be more than comfortable carring a 40S&W...

 

[hr.rage]

40S&W is a much maligned cartridge. People shun it because the standard 180 grain bullet has issues. But the same improvement in 9mm bullet technology improvements spilled over to 40S&W.
135-140-155-165 grain 40 S&W bullets have seen incredible improvements. Where 9mm shooters have delighted in 147 grain sub-sonic bullets, 40S&W 155 grain bullets easily achieve 10mm velocities. I would be more than comfortable carring a 40S&W...

I agree. The .40S&W wasn't popular with my father and brother at first, but I gradually changed their minds

In retrospect, the Kimber 1911 10mm would have been a great addition to my .400 collection, and I still regret not picking one up.

 

[ted_dent]

I definitely do not want frequent squibs

I'll keep a vigilant eye on the powder throw until I get the die to use the powder check on my other press.

Which brings me to this question, is there a way to do quality control on batches of let's say 50-100? For example, do an inspection and review of every round if the lot is -/+ 10 grains out of spec or are factory tolerances so wide that it would be impossible to measure with that much precision.

I am not quite sure what you mean about "inspection & review" of rounds. If you mean checking the powder charge in each case, that can be done visually with a reasonable degree of accuracy. As the 40 S&W is a fairly short case it is very easy to look into the case prior to placing the bullet for seating (a light mounted to the press makes this easier). 4.7-5.1 grains of powder will fill the case 1/2 full or more so it will be easy detect a higher or lower than normal powder level. I'm not talking .1 or .2 grains but you will be able to detect a significant over or under charge, either of which could cause serious a problem (squib or kaboom).

A powder check die is a good idea. The problem is that some presses do not have enough die stations to allow for one or their die arrangement does not allow for it. For example, in my Loadmasters station 1 decaps and resizes, station 2 is a dedicated priming station, station 3 charges and flares the case, station 4 is for bullet seating and station 5 can be used if I want to crimp in a separate step. I could put a powder check die in station 4 but station 5 is obscured by the press frame so i can't reach it to put in a bullet for seating/crimping. However, some press layouts do allow for the powder check die to be used.

 

[hr.rage]

I am not quite sure what you mean about "inspection & review" of rounds. If you mean checking the powder charge in each case, that can be done visually with a reasonable degree of accuracy. As the 40 S&W is a fairly short case it is very easy to look into the case prior to placing the bullet for seating (a light mounted to the press makes this easier). 4.7-5.1 grains of powder will fill the case 1/2 full or more so it will be easy detect a higher or lower than normal powder level. I'm not talking .1 or .2 grains but you will be able to detect a significant over or under charge, either of which could cause serious a problem (squib or kaboom).

Please excuse my novice questions. As an example, if the powder were bridging, it would occur over multiple rounds and would be detectable if weighed in batches. There are just too many variables, now that I think about it.

A powder check die is a good idea. The problem is that some presses do not have enough die stations to allow for one or their die arrangement does not allow for it. For example, in my Loadmasters station 1 decaps and resizes, station 2 is a dedicated priming station, station 3 charges and flares the case, station 4 is for bullet seating and station 5 can be used if I want to crimp in a separate step. I could put a powder check die in station 4 but station 5 is obscured by the press frame so i can't reach it to put in a bullet for seating/crimping. However, some press layouts do allow for the powder check die to be used.

The setup of my 650 isn't clear to me since I haven't picked it up from my father yet. I recently retrieved my Lee from storage, and I have the three-die set with the adjustable auto-disk. Also found a 1000 pieces of processed brass I forgot about

 

[ted_dent]

Please excuse my novice questions. As an example, if the powder were bridging, it would occur over multiple rounds and would be detectable if weighed in batches. There are just too many variables, now that I think about it.

Usually bridging is random, not consistent over several rounds. It just depends on how the powder falls into the thrower cavity. Since the grains of powder drop in randomly, the frequency with which they drop in such a way as to create a squib load is also completely random. I will say that flake and stick powders tend to create bridging issues far more than ball/fine granular powders, especially with light loads where the powder cavity in the thrower is small.

The setup of my 650 isn't clear to me since I haven't picked it up from my father yet. I recently retrieved my Lee from storage, and I have the three-die set with the adjustable auto-disk.

Dillon does make a powder check system that fits the 650 so you would be good to go. Not cheap, however (about $95 U.S.). The Hornady and RCBS versions are simpler but also considerably cheaper.

 

[hr.rage]

Usually bridging is random, not consistent over several rounds. It just depends on how the powder falls into the thrower cavity. Since the grains of powder drop in randomly, the frequency with which they drop in such a way as to create a squib load is also completely random. I will say that flake and stick powders tend to create bridging issues far more than ball/fine granular powders, especially with light loads where the powder cavity in the thrower is small.

Thank you very much for the valuable information. I picked up a vernier caliper and bench today, so all I have to do now is finish setting up my press.

Dillon does make a powder check system that fits the 650 so you would be good to go. Not cheap, however (about $95 U.S.). The Hornady and RCBS versions are simpler but also considerably cheaper.

Don't quote me, but I think I already have the powder check. I just need to get the.40 and a few other dies before I can fully switch to that press.

 

[fridge450]

Thank you very much for the valuable information. I picked up a vernier caliper and bench today, so all I have to do now is finish setting up my press.



Don't quote me, but I think I already have the powder check. I just need to get the.40 and a few other dies before I can fully switch to that press.

I’m not 100% but I use Lee dies for all my pistol reloading in my Horndy AP without issue, can’t see why they wouldn’t work in your Dillion?

 

[hr.rage]

I’m not 100% but I use Lee dies for all my pistol reloading in my Horndy AP without issue, can’t see why they wouldn’t work in your Dillion?

It appears that they are compatible as well. It was just that I had been contemplating purchasing the Dillon conversion kits and a nice storage rack.