40 vs 45
- Thread starter m1978
- Start date
At our police range we have a 1/2" plate steel 5 foot dummy on a spring stand that is supposed to simulate a 185 pound man standing erect. This device is used for a variety of target shooting exercises and for training in order to demonstrate what it take to put down a "person" with a handgun round.
Stopping power vs Knock down power: Shot placement from anything from a .22LR to a 44 mag will stop most anyone with a fatal shot to the vital organs, namely brain and heart. Having said that, during an ambush of FBI agents in Florida some years ago one of the criminals was fataly shot in the heart, lungs, liver, and head but still was able to kill two FBI agents and wound another before he fell with fatal wounds already inflicted from the agents 38 specials.
Although most attackers will drop or cease their attack when shot and wounded either because of phsycological reasons, self preservation, or a programmed response learned from TV shows and movies but those attacker who are highly motivated mentally or hopped up on drugs often continue their pursuit and attack.
So, again we come to stopping power vs knock down power. The 1/2" steel plate 5 foot dummy demonstrates to police trainees and other CCW self defense shooters knock down power needed to stop an average size male attacker. The 9mm wobbles it a bit, the 40 S&W wobbles it a bit more, and the 45acp knocks it over. Down and out is where you want an attacker who is trying to take your life or the life of a loved one.
Stopping power vs Knock down power: Shot placement from anything from a .22LR to a 44 mag will stop most anyone with a fatal shot to the vital organs, namely brain and heart. Having said that, during an ambush of FBI agents in Florida some years ago one of the criminals was fataly shot in the heart, lungs, liver, and head but still was able to kill two FBI agents and wound another before he fell with fatal wounds already inflicted from the agents 38 specials.
Although most attackers will drop or cease their attack when shot and wounded either because of phsycological reasons, self preservation, or a programmed response learned from TV shows and movies but those attacker who are highly motivated mentally or hopped up on drugs often continue their pursuit and attack.
So, again we come to stopping power vs knock down power. The 1/2" steel plate 5 foot dummy demonstrates to police trainees and other CCW self defense shooters knock down power needed to stop an average size male attacker. The 9mm wobbles it a bit, the 40 S&W wobbles it a bit more, and the 45acp knocks it over. Down and out is where you want an attacker who is trying to take your life or the life of a loved one.
" fist of god " , I like that .lol
What kind of stopping power ?
For a human sized target all three will do fine .
For a wilderness target ( ie : you've entered the food chain ) , out of these three the .45acp is the only way to go .
A jacked up 9 is still a 9 . A jacked up .40 is a 10mm . Get one of those Armco jacked up .45acp's that use cut down .308 brass , 200 grains at around 1500fps .
That would drop a lot of s**t .IMO
What kind of stopping power ?
For a human sized target all three will do fine .
For a wilderness target ( ie : you've entered the food chain ) , out of these three the .45acp is the only way to go .
A jacked up 9 is still a 9 . A jacked up .40 is a 10mm . Get one of those Armco jacked up .45acp's that use cut down .308 brass , 200 grains at around 1500fps .
That would drop a lot of s**t .IMO
Anyone who believes in one shot stops should read "Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness" by folks at FBI 
Make sure to read "The Human Target' on page 8 (pdf page 11)
http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi-hwfe.pdf
ps: there file seems to be password protected so text can't be coppied
Make sure to read "The Human Target' on page 8 (pdf page 11)
http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi-hwfe.pdf
ps: there file seems to be password protected so text can't be coppied
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Big JD-From the hills
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Saskatchewan.
You can't drop a man with the weak pistol rounds like 9mm, .40, .45acp. Like that pdf states, its like being hit with a baseball. My .40 sig 226 does not filp any more than the .45 1911's I have shot http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yObyFsP_21A
Here is some one shot stop data(.40s&w is the, or one of the highest):
http://www.handloads.com/misc/stoppingpower.asp
Here is some one shot stop data(.40s&w is the, or one of the highest):
http://www.handloads.com/misc/stoppingpower.asp
I knew I read somewhere a good comparison. This is from the FBI trials of the Winchester Ranger SXT in 9x19, .40S&W and .45ACP. (2004)
10% ballistic gelatin
9mm 124 gr +P....... penetration = 11 1/8 inches, expanded.. .669 inch
.40 S&W 180 gr...... penetration = 13 3/8 inches, expanded.. .864 inch
.45 ACP 230 gr....... penetration = 11 3/8 inches, expanded.. .811 inch
Ranger SXT HP ammunition
(source: G&W/LE Oct 2005)
10% ballistic gelatin
9mm 124 gr +P....... penetration = 11 1/8 inches, expanded.. .669 inch
.40 S&W 180 gr...... penetration = 13 3/8 inches, expanded.. .864 inch
.45 ACP 230 gr....... penetration = 11 3/8 inches, expanded.. .811 inch
Ranger SXT HP ammunition
(source: G&W/LE Oct 2005)
While patrolling, my friend in the army shot a Tali in Afgan with his 9mm +P+ loads. He hit him 9 times in the heart and 7 times in the head. The guys was still running towards him. His friend next to him pulled out his .45 ACP and shot the guy in the leg. Well the guy's entire left side exploded and the rest of his body was throw 45 feet in the air (that's why they call it a 45). When the other Talis saw that, they drop their guns and run out of the city. The Canadian army was able to secure the city of Tazimulhawahaha within the next 45 seconds. His friend received the medal of honor and was promoted general. That's why I bough a 9mm...
.45ACP - there's not replacement for displacement! A .45 hollow point is almost the size of an expanded 9mm hollowpoint.
In the end all that really matters is that you're able to put your shots where they count under pressure. That takes practice. You might as well do it with a .45 if you're going to go to all that effort. That said I do still want a P226 in 9mm.
In the end all that really matters is that you're able to put your shots where they count under pressure. That takes practice. You might as well do it with a .45 if you're going to go to all that effort. That said I do still want a P226 in 9mm.
40S&W is like a man purse for men.
Its not the best of both worlds, its the pussyized version of the 10mm.
Yes pussyized is a technical term. I think if the ### and lez community officially adopted a caliber it would be the 40S&W.
Oh wait thats my IPSC caliber.
Its not the best of both worlds, its the pussyized version of the 10mm.
Yes pussyized is a technical term. I think if the ### and lez community officially adopted a caliber it would be the 40S&W.
Oh wait thats my IPSC caliber.
hholidayy said:While patrolling, my friend in the army shot a Tali in Afgan with his 9mm +P+ loads. He hit him 9 times in the heart and 7 times in the head. The guys was still running towards him. His friend next to him pulled out his .45 ACP and shot the guy in the leg. Well the guy's entire left side exploded and the rest of his body was throw 45 feet in the air (that's why they call it a 45). When the other Talis saw that, they drop their guns and run out of the city. The Canadian army was able to secure the city of Tazimulhawahaha within the next 45 seconds. His friend received the medal of honor and was promoted general. That's why I bough a 9mm...
LOL
