$400 Chinese copy of the VZ58 (CZ858, ETC.)

[NavyCuda]

Why would I buy snap-on, when I'm only going to use a tool a couple dozen times over the next decade? I can use the money saved on other tools or something else I need. There are plenty of instances where the best value for someone is the cheaper item that may not have the "quality" of high end stuff.

I buy Snap-On, even for tools that might only use once, because I want them to work that one time.

I bought a cheap puller a while back, thinking oh I only need it for this one job. The puller destroyed itself trying to do the job and I had to get a warranty replacement, the replacement managed to complete the job. I wasted 3 hours screwing around with it, and if I had just bought the Snap-On, the job would have been done in 30 minutes.

That said, there are a number of quality components that come out of China, the quality is a direct result of the customers demands. If you want quality, you can get it, if not, you can get cheap garbage.

 

[mullet maniac]

when I look at the "built like a brick poopyhouse" nature of my norc 1911, and I marvel at how my norc sks has NEVER let me down, I'm not entirely convinced about this "chinese=crap quality" business.

Especially when I look in the far, dark corner of my gun locker and see the gongshow of a 5.56 csa vz58 sitting there, refusing to work. I'm a little surprised it hasn't demanded welfare payments yet.

 

[dimeN]

were just a farm country/colony for resources (minerals, energy, wood etc )..... don't buy china, their economy collapses and they don't buy our resources !.. what do you think will happen to us ... oh yah, nothing at all because were better than them, were the good guys

just buy what you buy ! this nationalism stuff is pure horsesh-t

even the dang imac i type this drivel from is from china .... theres very little you can do about it, anyhow


and besides, the chicom ammo in 7.62 is pretty good...look at the review on the red rifle forum

 

[fnrob]

CSA VZ58 are not made from surplus parts...all their parts are produced brand new from factory.

Whoops. I forgot about that. That actually kinda proves my point about a scratch built gun costing more, as the CSAs cost closer to $800-900, while the CZ-858s cost around $700.

 

[silverfoxdj]

I try not to buy anything from china. I don't support communism.

Don't go to Walmart or CTC you'll be shocked lol

 

[Cherrybum]

I try not to buy anything from china. I don't support communism.

Pfffffffffttttt lol

 

[silverfoxdj]

Cheap production in China may be on the way out. For the last several years, China has become increasingly a communism/capitalism hybrid. They have a growing and thriving middle class that is demanding higher pay. As their pay rates increase, so do the costs of production. Don't be surprised if production moves away from China in the upcoming decades and more into India or other countries where worker pay is still abysmally low.

Spot on...it happened to Japan..

 

[trebor2880]

Well said sir. The masses only care about cheap not quality. It is this, our own personal greed that will kill us.

As for the not buying Chinese comment. Most of you missed the point. Many of us choose not to buy Chinese. WHERE POSSIBLE! There are some things you have no choice but to buy Chinese. This is a direct result of western greed and desire for the lowest price.

Tdc

We're all quilty of allowing the Chinese to take over the finacial world, by being so friggin' cheap.
There's no excuse to willingly buy Chinese, unless it's to aquire a fine Norinco product.
God bless CanadaAmmo!

 

[10x]

Who else thinks this is a worthwhile venture? At least for the Canadian market, where even a specifically semi-auto variant of the AK would be prohibited by name.

How hard could it be to re-tool for such a similar firearm as their ak-variant (type 56)?

I for one, would love to snap up a couple in the $400 neighborhood. I think it's do-able.

The VZ58 is not an "AK variant". It is a very different design than the AK.
It does shoot the same ammo, and it is semi auto, it has a barrel and a similar stock but it is not a variant.
Having shot a number of AKs over the years - it is just another semi auto -with a poor trigger pull. Some of the Chinese sporting rifles based on the AK action give a nasty slap to the trigger finger when the trigger is locked so it will no go full auto.

It would be much simpler to have the government in power get rid of the prohibited category of guns and let folks possess and use these rifles. There is no reason or logic to these guns staying prohibited.

 

[5440fight]

Remember all the stores that sold everything for a dollar. Except for the chain store versions like Dollarama and Dollar Tree there are not that many left and the ones that still exist now sell a lot of the products for more than a dollar. Even in China people expect to see their salaries go up and that means prices have to go up as well.

You are right, eventually production of low profit items will be moved out of China to locations where labour is cheaper. Up till now that has meant Asia (Pakistan, Bangladesh, etc.). The standard of living in India has risen dramatically over the past twenty years or so and you see fewer and fewer low cost items from there. I predict that the next area to boom in production of low cost items will be Africa. It has extremely low labour costs and a wealth of natural resources. Right now the only problem there is the political unrest in many of the countries. Once that settles down it will be the next booming area producing low cost manufactured goods.

Thus endeth the geography lesson.

I agree with the statement, but it is a economics lesson, not geography. If you had indicated the physical location of these places, in regards to eachother, or even listed the compass direction they were from a stated starting point, I could have let it go, but as it is, I must correct you, because I want to be difficult.

I bought several Vz58/cz 858 rifles for $500-$600. Would I buy a copy for $400, if I could? Nope. Why bother, when Czech stuff is only slightly more expensive, and I can feel superior, by owing things that white people built?

 

[Lost...again]

I try not to buy anything that is made in china, don't sponsor communism.Why would anybody buy cheap crap just to say that they have it before it falls apart in 6 months if that. Support made in Canada or U.S.A.

As a poor humble NON GOVT/NON UNIONISED worker I cant afford to buy anything made in Canada/U.S.
I'll keep taking chances with the Chinese crap.............at least till I get a GOVT/UNION job.

 

[daniel_250r]

just wait for the type 81 it will blow the vz away

 

[dimeN]

daniel, i truly hope you are right and it gets in

and they'd better bring in a friggin pile of them, too !!!!!!!!!!

 

[daniel_250r]

I have faith in TI. If a stamped csr that wont accept ak parts gets an frt. then a type 81 that wont accept ak parts should too. The real question is how long will it take to issue the frt. also we will be waiting for them to make the order an hopefully they put on non res barrels that are chrome lined

 

[desporterizer]

I buy Snap-On, even for tools that might only use once, because I want them to work that one time.

I bought a cheap puller a while back, thinking oh I only need it for this one job. The puller destroyed itself trying to do the job and I had to get a warranty replacement, the replacement managed to complete the job. I wasted 3 hours screwing around with it, and if I had just bought the Snap-On, the job would have been done in 30 minutes.

That said, there are a number of quality components that come out of China, the quality is a direct result of the customers demands. If you want quality, you can get it, if not, you can get cheap garbage.

You paid $370 for a set of Snap-on wrenches when a set of $30 (on sale) Canadian tire wrenches would have done the job 99.9% of the time? That's nuts if you ask me & I have given the fine folks at Snap-on $30,000 (if not more) of my hard earned cash. As much as I hate to say it, there are plenty of decent (more than decent) Chinese made tools on the market & those Snap-on bastards are starting to bring some of their stuff from there too.

 

[enefgee]

You paid $370 for a set of Snap-on wrenches when a set of $30 (on sale) Canadian tire wrenches would have done the job 99.9% of the time? That's nuts if you ask me & I have given the fine folks at Snap-on $30,000 (if not more) of my hard earned cash. As much as I hate to say it, there are plenty of decent (more than decent) Chinese made tools on the market & those Snap-on bastards are starting to bring some of their stuff from there too.

Well yeah, but they won't advertise that. Snap On is the crack cocaine of the mechanical trades.

A couple of other points - China hasn't really been a Communist Country for twenty years, it's a dictatorship run by rival factions of warlords who co-operate when it comes to international policy. Also the M305, the reason the Chinese produced the M14 at all is that they were looking for another revolution to create/support, and thought that the Philippines looked good, since the Marcos regime armed it's soldiers with M14's, the Chinese decided to produce the same rifle for the communist guerillas there. The whole thing tanked (quite an entertaining story really), and they got stuck with a bunch of M14 receivers and other parts. Those parts were initially bought by Alan Lever, who had them demilled (the original Norc M14 was an M14) assembled and imported them to Canada. If you have have a really old Norc M14, with the grinder cut on the front of the receiver and a serial number starting with AL######xx, you have a piece of history. Also since some of those were somewhat ....hastily, assembled, you might be surprised if you look at the bottom of the receiver.

 

[mikethebike]

Who else thinks this is a worthwhile venture? At least for the Canadian market, where even a specifically semi-auto variant of the AK would be prohibited by name.

How hard could it be to re-tool for such a similar firearm as their ak-variant (type 56)?

I for one, would love to snap up a couple in the $400 neighborhood. I think it's do-able.

I'm really confused, you can't spend 250$ more to get a real cz858? Is someone on EE trying to sell you his cz for 2000$?

 

[Ar180shooter]

CSA VZ58 are not made from surplus parts...all their parts are produced brand new from factory.

Whoops. I forgot about that. That actually kinda proves my point about a scratch built gun costing more, as the CSAs cost closer to $800-900, while the CZ-858s cost around $700.

And it's also worth noting that the CSA's have far more reported issues than the CZ 858's. The CSA's do have a few nice things bout them, but at the end of the day, the CZ 858 is cheaper and better made.

Who else thinks this is a worthwhile venture? At least for the Canadian market, where even a specifically semi-auto variant of the AK would be prohibited by name.

How hard could it be to re-tool for such a similar firearm as their ak-variant (type 56)?

I for one, would love to snap up a couple in the $400 neighborhood. I think it's do-able.

What makes you think that just having the gun made in China will half the price when compared to guns that are made by the designers, on tooling that was paid for decades ago? The CZ-858's we get are very reasonably priced at $700, and this is with new receivers and new barrels.

Also look at the cost of the new Norinco AR-15's... $700, the same as the CZ-858.

 

[ted_dent]

I agree with the statement, but it is a economics lesson, not geography. If you had indicated the physical location of these places, in regards to eachother, or even listed the compass direction they were from a stated starting point, I could have let it go, but as it is, I must correct you, because I want to be difficult.

I bought several Vz58/cz 858 rifles for $500-$600. Would I buy a copy for $400, if I could? Nope. Why bother, when Czech stuff is only slightly more expensive, and I can feel superior, by owing things that white people built?

Actually it's what is known as Economic Geography. I took it in university and taught it for 30 years. It's the interrelationship between geographic location, resources (natural and human), economics, politics, etc. I guess it was my fault for assuming that people know where these countries are. When I was in school people were expected to know basic facts like where is China or what natural resources does Alberta have. Today they get graded on how well they are able to express how they're feeling because Michael Jackson died.

I weep for the future of today's youth.

 

[5440fight]

Actually it's what is known as Economic Geography. I took it in university and taught it for 30 years. It's the interrelationship between geographic location, resources (natural and human), economics, politics, etc. I guess it was my fault for assuming that people know where these countries are. When I was in school people were expected to know basic facts like where is China or what natural resources does Alberta have. Today they get graded on how well they are able to express how they're feeling because Michael Jackson died.

I weep for the future of today's youth.

Yes, Economic Geography would have been an accurate description. Thank you clarifying that, but you never told us how you feel about Michael Jackson's death, though you seemed to get quite emotional about the future of today's youth. Buck up, the future doesn't look as bad as you think, providing we master the limitations of our Economic Geography, and all the old people aren't crying all the time.