400gr 458 Win. Mag and a BEAR

358Scout

358Scout

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Planning some canoe trips in northern Saskatchewan maybe Alberta too. I have a Remington 700 in 458 Winchester and would like to take it as protection against bear. I've been using Speer 400gr jacketed flat points with 30.0 grains of IMR's SR4759 and getting as the book says about 1450fps. It shots so well ( 3/4" groups at 100 yds) I don't want to mess with it. The recoil is nothing and has become more fun to shoot. Talking to hunters ( I don't hunt) they are claiming I need a lot more velocity ie: in the 1800 - 2000 fps to stop a bear that this bullet needs to be pushed to stop a bear dead in his tracks.

I have the opinion that 100 years ago hunters then took bear with 45-70's at maybe the same or less velocity. Are bears bigger now? At this velocity I also feel that a well placed bullet should have no problem getting to the heart and lungs of even a brown bear. Your opinions from experience appreciated.
 
From my testing and experience the 400 gr. Speer should be limited to the 1450fps. you mentioned, it is a very thin jacketed and fragile bullet not meant for top end 45/70 or .458 velocities. Most other jacketed bullets can be driven faster without blowing up, the Remington, the 350 Hornady, and others, I don't know why speer made this bullet so soft.
 
I don't see any problem with using/recommending the optimum bullets for dangerous game, esp. as poster mentioned Alberta and the chance of meeting a Grizzly, he has a very capable rifle/caliber that could cause a shallow surface wound due to tough hide, caked mud and a very soft bullet!!
 
358Scout said:
...I have the opinion that 100 years ago hunters then took bear with 45-70's at maybe the same or less velocity. Are bears bigger now? At this velocity I also feel that a well placed bullet should have no problem getting to the heart and lungs of even a brown bear. Your opinions from experience appreciated.
Click to expand...

I am no bear expert but I believe that "taking" a bear is very different than "stopping it in its tracks".
 
Bear stopping

Like dudu says it is very different stopping a bear than just taking one,you need a well made bullet to break bones,don't forget you are tring to stop it outright not kill it,if it can't move it can't hurt you ( obviously you would kill it ASAP after it has been stopped) I carry a .458 Lott for polar bears loaded with 450 X's. Your rifle is part of your first aid kit don't skimp on the wrong bullet. Just my 2 cents worth.
be safe
pounder
 
While your load sounds nice for plinking or even for hunting black bears at close range, it's not a real bear stopper.

What I would reccomend - Load up ten rounds of full powered loads with a good, proven, heavy bullet. Fire three rounds at the range, just to know what you're dealing with, and save the rest for your bear defense situation. If you never need to fire them, then great, but if you do need to use them, they may save a life. Don't #### around with light loads for bear defense.

A real bear defense load has nothing to do with "fun to shoot"!

And in a real bear defense situation, you could be shooting a .577 T-Rex and the last thing you'll notice is recoil!
 
On a 458 Lott site there was an article about velocities and penetration tests. seems the ideal was 1600 to 1700 fps for the heavy bullets.The 460 Weatherby at 2400 fps did not do as well as slower ones. Just in case you ever get the itch to rechamber to a Lott, it only costs about $200. The 458 is plenty of gun. I myself prefer the Hornady DGX ammo.
 
458j.jpg



the 458 is plenty to kill a bear. There not bullet proof.
 
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