.401 wsl

woodlotowner

woodlotowner

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Haliburton County, Central Ontario
I would appreciate some enlightenment from those who may be familiar with this chambering. I am considering purchasing a Winchester 1910, but would appreciate some input on the design and it's reliability. Also, is there any hope of finding ammo for this piece?

Thanks.
 
Ammunition for it would be very hard to acquire. Factory ammunition production was discontinued in the early 1950's.
Any ammunition today would be 60+ years old, collectable or made from another case by custom loaders.

Got a lathe? .35 Rem cases with some lathe work would do the trick. Hopefully you're a handloader.

ht tp://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=544917

ht tp://www.ammo-one.com/401WSL.html
 
Never heard of the .401 WSL so I had to look it up. Looks like cases can be somewhat easily made from 7.62x39 case expanded to a straight case and trimmed to length.
 
The action itself is a modified blowback design. I shot my first deer with the .351 variant of that action. Fun to shhot, deceptively heavy due to the mass required for the breechblock.
Virtually all the .401 ammo I've seen in the past 30 years has been part of a gun package deal.
 
They're good guns, dont loose the mag that came with it as they are hard to come by.

The cartridge is strictly a reloaders fancy, you will be very lucky to find factory rounds at a decent price.
 
Similar but a bit better ballistics than the 44Mag. The old Win blow backs are very reliable but they are in a variety of conditions these days. Fun to shoot. Was considered a real hammer by the old timers. The 250 grain bullet would give good penetration.
 
"...hope of finding ammo..." Not likely in Canada. It's available Stateside, but not from a major manufacturer. Not exactly cheap either. Buffalo Arms wants $49.66US per 20. Out of stock, even if you could order it.
It uses a .406" or .407" bullet that nobody makes. Collector grade ammo runs close to $100US per 20, Stateside. As mentioned don't lose the mag.
These are the case dimensions. No other cartridge is quite right, but it's supposedly being made out of 7.62 x 39 with a head diameter difference that gets blown out.
.458 rim
.435 Head
.432 mouth
.407bullet
1.500case length
2.005 overall
This is some load data from my Lyman book.
Bullet diameter: .406" to .407"
Maxcase length: 1.5"
Trim-to: 1.495"
Max OAL w. bullet: 2.005"
Primer: Large Rifle

200 Grain Jacketed
Powder Start Vel Max. Vel
Unique 13.0 1597 15.2 1811
2400 22.0 1718 24.7 1915

212 Grain Cast (Lyman mold #41028 #2 alloy)
Powder Start Vel Max. Vel
Unique 12.0 1618 14.9 1845
2400 21.0 1773 23.5 1960
IMR4227 26.0 1915 29.0* 2074

240 Grain Cast (Lyman mold #41026 #2 alloy)
Powder Start Vel Max. Vel
Unique 11.0 1470 13.7 1672
2400 20.0 1669 22.0 1818
IMR4227 24.0 1506 27.5* 1968

* = compressed load
 
The 1910 in 401 is a very hard hitting old rifle .They are all takedown and the mag holds 4 rounds .bullet weights were from 180-250 grains .
I myself have a good example that works great with a 210 copper plated berrys bullet swaged down from 410 to 406 and I use lapua 762x39 brass which I turn above the web to allow it to enter the chamber and then fire form .After that load and good to go
 
I thought I posted a reply here yesterday thanking you guys profusely, but I don't see it. I guess I nodded off at the keyboard and never sent it so thanks to all for the wealth of information on this rifle/cartridge! I feel confident, having now purchased the old relic for $269, that I can muster some brass and bullets here at home to make this thing shoot. Bullets may be a bit of an issue, since I neither cast nor own a sizer, but perhaps buying the next size up in cast and then investing in a sizer would be the way to go?

It needs some work (and I am not sure what a 'dark bore' will amount to in this case) but it should be a good inexpensive project provided there is enough rifling left to shoot accurately. If it's a dud I won't be too disappointed. I needed a nice old wall hanger anyway. :)
 
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woodlotowner said:
I thought I posted a reply here yesterday thanking you guys profusely, but I don't see it. I guess I nodded off at the keyboard and never sent it so thanks to all for the wealth of information on this rifle/cartridge! I feel confident, having now purchased the old relic for $269, that I can muster some brass and bullets here at home to make this thing shoot. Bullets may be a bit of an issue, since I neither cast nor own a sizer, but perhaps buying the next size up in cast and then investing in a sizer would be the way to go?

It needs some work (and I am not sure what a 'dark bore' will amount to in this case) but it should be a good inexpensive project provided there is enough rifling left to shoot accurately. If it's a dud I won't be too disappointed. I needed a nice old wall hanger anyway. :)
Click to expand...

Sounds like a good price. I'da bought it just for the Neat factor.;)

Grizz
 
'Dark' bore in this case means 'smooth' bore. Too bad. The lands are shiny, but the grooves are dark and pitted (feels like grit in the barrel when the patch passes through). Not much difference in diameter, if any, between the two. Maybe I should just try shooting it and see what it does. I have no idea how much/little rifling it takes to stabilize a bullet in this caliber. It's either a very nice wall hanger or I have it re-bored or re-barreled (which would be more practical?).

The rest of the rifle looks very good. No real visible wear on any internal parts. I surmise that it has seen little actual use, but was just stored poorly for a very long period of time.

Suggestions?
 
"...Suggestions..." Slug the barrel. Find out what diameter it is. There are no jacketed .406/7" bullets anyway, so you might be able to work out a cast bullet. Otherwise, you're in for a long expensive hunt for a barrel. Gunparts doesn't even list a 1910. No parts at all.
The whole thing is something I'd discuss with the nice people at Epps. If anybody knows where to or can find odd stuff, it's them.
"...re-bored..." Re-think that. The cartridge has nothing in common with any other cartridge(including the 7.62 x 39), so bolt face dimensions, mag size, et al, will all require changing. Rebarrel first.
 
Thanks, Sunray. I have a post in the gunsmithing issues forum now and I expect you have pretty well summed up the options. I wonder if the barrel could be rebored and the chamber left as is. This would still mean an odd bore diameter, but brass could similarly be formed from the suggestions above. If this is a wild notion then it is in keeping with my general lack of knowledge of re-boring a barrel. :)
 
"...rebored and the chamber left..." Nope. Case wouldn't hold a larger diameter bullet and work properly. The rifle is too valuable to muck around with too.
Got to thinking. A .41 Mag bullet is .410". If you can find cast SWC's(horrendously scarce though. Could find 'em for my .41 AE) and swage 'em, you'd at least have bullets. I'm thinking a RN swager to give you FP's.
 
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I paid for the dies at The Bullet Barn in BC to swage .407 hard cast bullets & they worked well-accurate also!
Talk to Lois and she can fix you up with .407 cast bullets
I have since sold the rifle dies & bullets & can't remember the weight.
I used 35 Rem brass & a little lathe work for the brass.
 
boss-hog2 said:
I paid for the dies at The Bullet Barn in BC to swage .407 hard cast bullets & they worked well-accurate also!
Talk to Lois and she can fix you up with .407 cast bullets
I have since sold the rifle dies & bullets & can't remember the weight.
I used 35 Rem brass & a little lathe work for the brass.
Click to expand...

I also got a batch of these done up for me. I haven't had a chance to try them out yet, but they swaged them down from the .41 pistol bullet SWC BB 215 gr. .411dia. down to .406 dia. They are only $79.00 for 500 with an extra $10.00 to size them down.

I also got some 200 gr. .406 jacketed soft point speer bullets and reformed 7.62X39 brass from Ellwood Epps. Not cheap though. I think it was $2/round with only the bullet and brass.

Oh, yeah and buffalo arms in the US has the dies for this round and ships to Canada.

I have managed to save up and collect 92 original good condition cartridges mainly from kynoch with some Remington and Winchester too.

I am definately taking it deer hunting this year!

Cheers,

Ian
 
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Rebarelled the 1910 in 401 WSL, had the stock repaired, and shot it last week with a box of original Winchester ammo I found at a gun show. Only fired 4 rounds, but everything worked perfectly and I had a nice small group at 25 yards. I have components to load up 50 cartridges so this will be the next project. Overall I am extremely pleased with how this worked out and I intend to take it out for deer on a few occasions this fall.

Thanks to all for the advice, the 'new' barrel, and the components. CGN proves it's worth yet again. :)
 
These are great old guns that are fun to shoot. My dad has bought 3 of them over the past year or 2 and took a deer with the .351 sl this last deer season. As for making cases he had a lot of trouble making them using .308 Winchester the 7.62x39 worked much much easier. Lots of fun to play around with at the club :D
 
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