410 for small birds / youth

From parts listings, I see the .410 is all different parts, so I presume that Cooey made the .410 to a smaller scale than the rest?
I have a 840 in .410 and one in 28ga. The actions are identical. I had to replace the extractor in the .410 and, of course that is one part that is calibre/gauge specific but the actions are the exact same.
 
Last edited:
Get a wooden stocked single shot, they’re the simplest to learn on, easy unloaded for crossing obstacles in the woods, and it’s easy to cut down for the shorter lenght of pull. Save the cut off piece, can always dowel and glue it back on to add the lenght back in a few years.
 
Ground swat, up to 25 m away, that would be the goal.
Better off with a .22lr if that’s the case, I like the .410 but with the way ammo cost and availability is I won’t buy one. Small game hunting for me is .22lr and 12g, 99% of the time I’m shooting grouse on the ground or in a tree. Wing shooting in the mountains just means you loose a shot grouse down a steep hill or it’s gone before you get a chance to shoot.
 
Depends on whether you're trying to get the kiddos wing shooting, or if you're content with ground swatting the grouse. 410 is very effective at kill grouse that are just standing around, much harder, to score a good hit once they take flight though.
Yup. A kid will do great with 410 for shooting birds on the ground or out of trees. An old Cooey, Iver Johnson or h and r are all handy, short and light plus they have a hammer and are single shot. Inherently safer for a new shooter in my mind anyway.
 
Lots of choices out there for youth model shotguns. find one that fits your kids. This will make a big difference in their ability to shoulder and shoot effectively.

Ground swatting vs wingshooting...another challenge altogether.
As mentioned above, how and where you hunt birds may have a significant impact on the opportunities your kids will have learning to hunt and kill birds. Road/trail hunting birds in thick forests and mountain areas, or open prairie/grassland, or semi-open aspen stands. Many different environments that people hunt birds in across Canada; what works best in your area?
Nothing wrong with letting kids get comfortable with groundswatting birds (of any type that the chosen gaige and shot will effectively bring down with the various chokes). And then it comes to small game, those targets usually aren't flying anyways! LOL (Although squirrels running through the treetops can be a challenge!)

When you're ready for them to learn skeet/trap/clays to learn how to wingshoot, at least they'll have the basics in handling and aiming down...and then they can work on the next level skill. This is where a larger gauge may be more effective and therefore enjoyable vs frustrating for the youngsters. Then again, there are those that have better natural ability than others and wingshooting of any type just comes easier to them than others. Here is where proper instruction is going to make a huge difference in their progress.

I started with a Winchester Model 37A in .410 as a kid, using 2 1/2" 7 1.2 shot. Shot lots of grouse and snowshoe hares on the farm. In the dark spruce and semi open aspen, I never had many opportunities for wingshooting, and meat for the family table was the priority, and as a 10 year old, waiting for a bird to be still, whether on the ground or perched in a tree, was the more effective way to ensure it was brought to bag. I hadn't hunted grouse with a single shot for many years, until I went out one afternoon with a friend, and we used his old Cooey 84 with 3" 7 1/2 shot to take a number of ruffies. What fun! Brought back a lot of fond memories of hunting the farm with Grandma. I went looking for one...

Today, I have a Winchester Model 37A in 28 ga, as I wasn't readily able to find one in .410. I have really enjoyed the 28, and ammo hasn't been that hard to find, and when I do, generally less expensive than .410 today. I have had a lot of fun hunting grouse with it, and my Remington 1100 Sporting 28, which my wife claimed, and a Benelli Ethos, also in 28. We use 7 1/2 shot in all of these. (I have bought some 4 and 6 to try on ducks and pheasant (if/when I get another chance to hunt southeastern Alberta). I really need to get out to the range this summer on the evenings when they are shooting clays and get some lessons on wingshooting!
I had also found a Cooey 84 in 28 ga, that my daughter now has, and a Cooey 84 in .410 which I gave to my mother. Neither of them wongshoot.
Recently, I found a Youth model Winchester Model 37A in .410 and have bought it for future grandkids.
 
Lots of choices out there for youth model shotguns. find one that fits your kids. This will make a big difference in their ability to shoulder and shoot effectively.

Ground swatting vs wingshooting...another challenge altogether.
As mentioned above, how and where you hunt birds may have a significant impact on the opportunities your kids will have learning to hunt and kill birds. Road/trail hunting birds in thick forests and mountain areas, or open prairie/grassland, or semi-open aspen stands. Many different environments that people hunt birds in across Canada; what works best in your area?
Nothing wrong with letting kids get comfortable with groundswatting birds (of any type that the chosen gaige and shot will effectively bring down with the various chokes). And then it comes to small game, those targets usually aren't flying anyways! LOL (Although squirrels running through the treetops can be a challenge!)

When you're ready for them to learn skeet/trap/clays to learn how to wingshoot, at least they'll have the basics in handling and aiming down...and then they can work on the next level skill. This is where a larger gauge may be more effective and therefore enjoyable vs frustrating for the youngsters. Then again, there are those that have better natural ability than others and wingshooting of any type just comes easier to them than others. Here is where proper instruction is going to make a huge difference in their progress.

I started with a Winchester Model 37A in .410 as a kid, using 2 1/2" 7 1.2 shot. Shot lots of grouse and snowshoe hares on the farm. In the dark spruce and semi open aspen, I never had many opportunities for wingshooting, and meat for the family table was the priority, and as a 10 year old, waiting for a bird to be still, whether on the ground or perched in a tree, was the more effective way to ensure it was brought to bag. I hadn't hunted grouse with a single shot for many years, until I went out one afternoon with a friend, and we used his old Cooey 84 with 3" 7 1/2 shot to take a number of ruffies. What fun! Brought back a lot of fond memories of hunting the farm with Grandma. I went looking for one...

Today, I have a Winchester Model 37A in 28 ga, as I wasn't readily able to find one in .410. I have really enjoyed the 28, and ammo hasn't been that hard to find, and when I do, generally less expensive than .410 today. I have had a lot of fun hunting grouse with it, and my Remington 1100 Sporting 28, which my wife claimed, and a Benelli Ethos, also in 28. We use 7 1/2 shot in all of these. (I have bought some 4 and 6 to try on ducks and pheasant (if/when I get another chance to hunt southeastern Alberta). I really need to get out to the range this summer on the evenings when they are shooting clays and get some lessons on wingshooting!
I had also found a Cooey 84 in 28 ga, that my daughter now has, and a Cooey 84 in .410 which I gave to my mother. Neither of them wongshoot.
Recently, I found a Youth model Winchester Model 37A in .410 and have bought it for future grandkids.
Teaching kids to aim a shotgun like a rifle on stationary targets, does not help them to learn wingshooting. It actually is a hindrance, because now you have to break them of that habit, and get them to concentrate on the target, rather than on the beads.
 
Maybe Mini shells are a good alternative.

I want to avoid recoil shyness / reluctance developing.
I have found three brands of mini shells and they all seem to have the same amount of kick per oz of load as any other - maybe even more. I have shot birdshot, buck shot and slugs with them as well.
 
Teaching kids to aim a shotgun like a rifle on stationary targets, does not help them to learn wingshooting. It actually is a hindrance, because now you have to break them of that habit, and get them to concentrate on the target, rather than on the beads.
This is why I talked about learning the "next level of skill"... and "Here is where proper instruction is going to make a huge difference in their progress."
They need to first learn how to safely handle a firearm and aim at a target, before teaching them about lead and how to swing through on a flying target.

It takes a minimum of 1,500 times of doing something to develop muscle memory, and 15,000 times to start to make that practice instinctive (this from coaching archery for many years)...
if you're teaching a kid how to shoot a .410, and at birds sitting on the ground or in a tree...how many of them are going to shoot at 1500 birds before you start them on wingshooting?
If this occurs during their first season of shooting or two, there isn't going to be much, if any, "habit" to break, or muscle memory to overcome. And how many parents are going to let their kids shoot up $1,500 worth of .410 ammo before allowing to try to shoot at their first grouse sitting on the ground or perched in a tree?

Of course, if we are talking about some older shooters who may not have had the chance to take lessons in wingshooting (trap/skeet/clays), and have only ever taken birds groundswatting, then the chance of there being "habit" or muscle memory to overcome is very likely.
 
This is why I talked about learning the "next level of skill"... and "Here is where proper instruction is going to make a huge difference in their progress."
They need to first learn how to safely handle a firearm and aim at a target, before teaching them about lead and how to swing through on a flying target.

It takes a minimum of 1,500 times of doing something to develop muscle memory, and 15,000 times to start to make that practice instinctive (this from coaching archery for many years)...
if you're teaching a kid how to shoot a .410, and at birds sitting on the ground or in a tree...how many of them are going to shoot at 1500 birds before you start them on wingshooting?
If this occurs during their first season of shooting or two, there isn't going to be much, if any, "habit" to break, or muscle memory to overcome. And how many parents are going to let their kids shoot up $1,500 worth of .410 ammo before allowing to try to shoot at their first grouse sitting on the ground or perched in a tree?

Of course, if we are talking about some older shooters who may not have had the chance to take lessons in wingshooting (trap/skeet/clays), and have only ever taken birds groundswatting, then the chance of there being "habit" or muscle memory to overcome is very likely.
You don't aim a shotgun to wingshoot, if you want to earn your 25,50,75 and 100 straight patches. The more time that you spend aiming, the longer it takes to get used to not aiming for wingshooting. I run a skeet field, and some of the shooters that take the longest to adapt to wingshooting, are experienced rifle shooters. A friend virtually new to firearms, borrowed my skeet gun, and shot 20/25, his first day out, mostly due to the fact, that he hadn't developed any bad habits.
 
Steven's and rossi both make an excellent youth model 410. The rossi has lop spacers as well as choke tube's.
I actually use a Steven's 301 turkey 410 for squirrels when the leaves are thick. 1/2oz #6 really knocks those tough black squirrels out of the tops of the tallest oak trees
 
To learn on a .410 is a frustrating experience.
For the availability and price of spitting snawt, heck a 28 gauge will take the frustration away of watching feathers float to the ground.
Better yet is the 20.
Cheaper and easier to find ammo.

I’ve lived this twice.
 
Shotguns are only as good as the one shooting them and what ammo is being used. Handloads make the .410 a 30 yard gun. BPI stretch wads come to mind.
 
Back
Top Bottom