I think I need a new Ruger RSM in .416 Rigby. I've heard they inveritaby will split the stock if not properly bedded and/or relieved behind the tang. Does anyone have experience with these and is that the only changes you would make to make this into a dead reliable dangerous game rifle? Trigger? Action work? Any other suggestions? I suppose it might be more cost effective to start with a CZ 550 and then do the same work but I prefer the look of the Ruger. Another option would be to wait for the Kimber Caprivi to become more availible but I think it is worth about $3500 and may still need some work.
.416 Ruger RSM
- Thread starter My_Ram
- Start date
Before you spend any money, make sure you can easily buy ammo or brass and bullets where you are. Neither is going to be cheap, locally, but it'll be far more expensive if you have to add shipping, etc. Russell's Sports, in Calgary, lists Norma and Weatherby brass at $154.99 per 100 and $62.99 per 20 respectively. Lotta money for a cartridge that really isn't required for any game in Canada.
You don't want the tang relieved. If you're concerned about splitting that high priced Circassian Walnut, just glass bed the rifle.
You don't want the tang relieved. If you're concerned about splitting that high priced Circassian Walnut, just glass bed the rifle.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
My experience with the .416 Rigby cartridge was over all positive. The cartridge is magnificent, although I found I was paying close to $200.00 for 50 Norma cases.
There are a number of things that you need to consider if you are going to use this rifle for dangerous game work. These comments are genericly directed towards any dangerous game rifle as I have no personal experience with the Ruger RSM. The first item is that the rifle must fit you well. Fitting will make the rifle easier to shoot well, and will make it quicker to get into action.
I do not believe that any mass produced rifle is bedded adequately. In the case of a heavy hitter like the Rigby, cross bolts should be added to the stock, the tang should have adequate relief, and the action should be glass bedded for as precise a fit as possible.
Until you have the rifle in hand you will be unable to determine if feeding is acceptable. Again, if the rifle is going to be used against dangerous game, good enough won't cut it. Working the action vigorously must feed and eject cartridges every time. Make sure that if the bolt handle is going to break off it happens on the range rather than in the bush. If the bolt is difficult to ####, some polishing might be in order, and the same goes for a bolt that is not smooth to operate.
One of my pet peeves is the sling swivel stud. Invariably this is mounted at a mid point on the fore-end of the stock. If you have long arms, the stud in this position will result in a cut hand, so it is better to move the stud to the radius of the fore-end. My preference is a good quality leather sling, which is suitable as both a carrying strap and a shooting sling. The Galco Safari Ching Sling is excellent in this regard.
Sights need some consideration as well. You will most likely want to mount a scope on the rifle, but if you do a low powered fixed model or a low powered variable is your best option. A low power scope places you at no disadvantage should you need to make a snap shot. These scopes offer the most generous amount of eye relief, and the ocular lens should not extend behind the rear bow of the trigger guard or behind the cocking piece of the action. Being hit by a scope from the recoil of a .416 Rigby is no small matter. In case of scope damage, the scope should be in QD rings so that you can switch to the metallic sights, or to a second scope if you primary scope is damaged. My preference for iron sights is a ghost ring and post, but many prefer conventional open sights. Attention must be paid to the rear sight in that if it is a "V" design that the "V" is not so deep that it obscures the target. Which ever you choose, the sights must be regulated to ammunition you will have with you.
A problem I needed to address with my .375 has to do with the trigger guard. In recoil, the knuckle of my middle finger would painfully bump the trigger guard, and I knew if I did not address the problem quickly, I would begin to flinch. The solution was small nylon filler at the back of the trigger guard that just painlessly directs my knuckle downwards when the rifle recoils.
There are a number of things that you need to consider if you are going to use this rifle for dangerous game work. These comments are genericly directed towards any dangerous game rifle as I have no personal experience with the Ruger RSM. The first item is that the rifle must fit you well. Fitting will make the rifle easier to shoot well, and will make it quicker to get into action.
I do not believe that any mass produced rifle is bedded adequately. In the case of a heavy hitter like the Rigby, cross bolts should be added to the stock, the tang should have adequate relief, and the action should be glass bedded for as precise a fit as possible.
Until you have the rifle in hand you will be unable to determine if feeding is acceptable. Again, if the rifle is going to be used against dangerous game, good enough won't cut it. Working the action vigorously must feed and eject cartridges every time. Make sure that if the bolt handle is going to break off it happens on the range rather than in the bush. If the bolt is difficult to ####, some polishing might be in order, and the same goes for a bolt that is not smooth to operate.
One of my pet peeves is the sling swivel stud. Invariably this is mounted at a mid point on the fore-end of the stock. If you have long arms, the stud in this position will result in a cut hand, so it is better to move the stud to the radius of the fore-end. My preference is a good quality leather sling, which is suitable as both a carrying strap and a shooting sling. The Galco Safari Ching Sling is excellent in this regard.
Sights need some consideration as well. You will most likely want to mount a scope on the rifle, but if you do a low powered fixed model or a low powered variable is your best option. A low power scope places you at no disadvantage should you need to make a snap shot. These scopes offer the most generous amount of eye relief, and the ocular lens should not extend behind the rear bow of the trigger guard or behind the cocking piece of the action. Being hit by a scope from the recoil of a .416 Rigby is no small matter. In case of scope damage, the scope should be in QD rings so that you can switch to the metallic sights, or to a second scope if you primary scope is damaged. My preference for iron sights is a ghost ring and post, but many prefer conventional open sights. Attention must be paid to the rear sight in that if it is a "V" design that the "V" is not so deep that it obscures the target. Which ever you choose, the sights must be regulated to ammunition you will have with you.
A problem I needed to address with my .375 has to do with the trigger guard. In recoil, the knuckle of my middle finger would painfully bump the trigger guard, and I knew if I did not address the problem quickly, I would begin to flinch. The solution was small nylon filler at the back of the trigger guard that just painlessly directs my knuckle downwards when the rifle recoils.
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I'm only about 100 miles from the NWT border here so nothing is cheap, but Corlanes in Dawson Creek is only 4 1/2 hours south so I would get ammo/brass while down south. The rifle would be for dangerous game in Africa although a 400 gn soft point would probaby tip over a moose ok.
sunray said:
(a) If you plan on using it in Africa the .416 Rigby would be a good choice because ammunition for it would be easy to obtain there.
(b) If you plan on using it in North America I would recommend a .416 Remington Magnum. Much, much cheaper to shoot with all the power of the factory Rigby.
(c) Ignore (b) if you have lots of money to spend.
(b) If you plan on using it in North America I would recommend a .416 Remington Magnum. Much, much cheaper to shoot with all the power of the factory Rigby.
(c) Ignore (b) if you have lots of money to spend.
Thanks for all the input:
Boomer: The Ruger RSM has a barrel band sling swivel to avoid hitting your hand, but I was wondering how a barrel band rifle would shoot from a tight sling hold? If it would change point of impact compared to off a rest. Something to check anyway. Your right a person would have to check the individual rifle for bad trigger, slickness of action etc. I was wondering in a general way if some of the gunsmiths on here have found preparing certain brands of rifles for dangerous game service required more work than others.
The Ruger comes with folding leaf express sights and I've heard that one leaf should be sighted in for 50 yds and the folding one soldered down so it doesn't pop up at a bad time. This is assuming a low powered scope (I was thinking Leupold VXIII in 1.5-5X20) in QD mounts. I'm leaning toward Talleys.
guntech: For a dangerous game rifle most of the "experts" I've read prefer mauser type actions with controlled round feeding, I not aware of any chambered for the .416 remington, but I could be wrong. The ammo cost isn't really a huge consideration compared to the cost of the safari, but I would like to burn lots of ammo here before relying on it over there, also to make sure the shooter is ready and nothing will fall off the rifle from recoil before it comes down to crunch time.
Gatehouse: I'm definetly not rich but on my last trip found that by booking 2 years in advance you put up half the cost up front then a year later pay the other half, then when you go you pay half the taxidermy then a year later when taxidermy is ready you pay the othe half. You you can spread the cost over 3 years its not to bad. That is also why I would start on the rifle project 2 years early. Beside the planning/daydreaming is half the fun.
Boomer: The Ruger RSM has a barrel band sling swivel to avoid hitting your hand, but I was wondering how a barrel band rifle would shoot from a tight sling hold? If it would change point of impact compared to off a rest. Something to check anyway. Your right a person would have to check the individual rifle for bad trigger, slickness of action etc. I was wondering in a general way if some of the gunsmiths on here have found preparing certain brands of rifles for dangerous game service required more work than others.
The Ruger comes with folding leaf express sights and I've heard that one leaf should be sighted in for 50 yds and the folding one soldered down so it doesn't pop up at a bad time. This is assuming a low powered scope (I was thinking Leupold VXIII in 1.5-5X20) in QD mounts. I'm leaning toward Talleys.
guntech: For a dangerous game rifle most of the "experts" I've read prefer mauser type actions with controlled round feeding, I not aware of any chambered for the .416 remington, but I could be wrong. The ammo cost isn't really a huge consideration compared to the cost of the safari, but I would like to burn lots of ammo here before relying on it over there, also to make sure the shooter is ready and nothing will fall off the rifle from recoil before it comes down to crunch time.
Gatehouse: I'm definetly not rich but on my last trip found that by booking 2 years in advance you put up half the cost up front then a year later pay the other half, then when you go you pay half the taxidermy then a year later when taxidermy is ready you pay the othe half. You you can spread the cost over 3 years its not to bad. That is also why I would start on the rifle project 2 years early. Beside the planning/daydreaming is half the fun.
MyRam,
Far too much fuss is made about brass costs. You don't need a thousand of them, and at the 30-30 pressure that the Rigby runs at cases last a long time. I have 170 cases for mine, yet have done all my shooting with the same fifty Norma.They are on their 14th loading. My plan is to use new brass in Africa, and hope to live long enough to lose the rest of them hunting, one case at a time. Starting in 2 months.
The RMS rifles that I have handled were both very good looking and extremely heavy. Heavy to the point that they make my CZs look like featherweights. I've got heavy barrel varmint rigs that weigh less. There's a limit to what is needed for recoil. I don't know what the advertised weight is, but scoped up they must be over 12 pounds.
Glassing any centerfire is never a bad idea. I crossbolted my .416 and 375 as well, but more for the heck of it than any other reason. Besides, I like the look.
Good luck in Africa, when/where are you going?
Dogleg
Far too much fuss is made about brass costs. You don't need a thousand of them, and at the 30-30 pressure that the Rigby runs at cases last a long time. I have 170 cases for mine, yet have done all my shooting with the same fifty Norma.They are on their 14th loading. My plan is to use new brass in Africa, and hope to live long enough to lose the rest of them hunting, one case at a time.
Starting in 2 months. The RMS rifles that I have handled were both very good looking and extremely heavy. Heavy to the point that they make my CZs look like featherweights. I've got heavy barrel varmint rigs that weigh less. There's a limit to what is needed for recoil. I don't know what the advertised weight is, but scoped up they must be over 12 pounds.
Glassing any centerfire is never a bad idea. I crossbolted my .416 and 375 as well, but more for the heck of it than any other reason. Besides, I like the look.
Good luck in Africa, when/where are you going?
Dogleg
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- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
My Ram -
The 1.5-5 Leupold is the same scope I had on my .416 Rigby and it was mounted in Talley rings. IMHO it is an excellent choice. Concerning gunsmiths, there are many excellent ones out there, and more than a couple who are members of this board. In my experience, different gunsmiths have different interests and different specialties. You need a gunsmith who has big bore rifle experience.
If the .416 Remington tempts you, a pal of mine has one in a Brno 602, which is a controlled round feed rifle. The Remington cartridge bugs me though. The Ultra cartridges were brought out so soon after the introduction of the .416 that Remington must of anticipated them. I do not know why they did not build their .416 on the .404 case, along with the .375, and they also missed the boat by not bringing out a .458 version before the Lott became so popular. Reports from Africa suggest that the .416 Remington develops some pressure issues in high temperatures, particularly with ball powder. When you make your trip, I am sure you will take fresh ammo with you, so many of these concerns will not effect you, but the .416 Remington is not nearly the cartridge the Rigby is.
The 1.5-5 Leupold is the same scope I had on my .416 Rigby and it was mounted in Talley rings. IMHO it is an excellent choice. Concerning gunsmiths, there are many excellent ones out there, and more than a couple who are members of this board. In my experience, different gunsmiths have different interests and different specialties. You need a gunsmith who has big bore rifle experience.
If the .416 Remington tempts you, a pal of mine has one in a Brno 602, which is a controlled round feed rifle. The Remington cartridge bugs me though. The Ultra cartridges were brought out so soon after the introduction of the .416 that Remington must of anticipated them. I do not know why they did not build their .416 on the .404 case, along with the .375, and they also missed the boat by not bringing out a .458 version before the Lott became so popular. Reports from Africa suggest that the .416 Remington develops some pressure issues in high temperatures, particularly with ball powder. When you make your trip, I am sure you will take fresh ammo with you, so many of these concerns will not effect you, but the .416 Remington is not nearly the cartridge the Rigby is.
Dogleg: The Ruger site says 10 lbs., I've heard that the same rifle in .375 H&H is way to heavy for that much recoil, but I thought for heavy recoil like .416 or .458 10 lbs was a good thing. So the CZ's are quite a bit lighter? How is the recoil? Any loose filings in your teeth?
I believe the Ruger comes with two crossbolts already so it's suprising that I still heard of a lot of cracked stocks.
We haven't booked yet but are leaning toward Tanzinia in 2009, probably the Selous as it would be cheaper than Masiland but not as much plains game to choose from. Leaning toward Tanzinia because you can take two buffalo on a short 10 to 14 day safari, but depending on what the others want most we are also looking at Mosambique and Botswana. If I did that it would be one buffalo and lepoard plus plains game. Although my first trip was to South Africa and I ended up taking 11 plains game animals, so that amount of taxidermy nearly broke the bank. So this time I'm thinking 2 major animals and possibly a couple plains game if I found something I couldn't resist.
I believe the Ruger comes with two crossbolts already so it's suprising that I still heard of a lot of cracked stocks.
We haven't booked yet but are leaning toward Tanzinia in 2009, probably the Selous as it would be cheaper than Masiland but not as much plains game to choose from. Leaning toward Tanzinia because you can take two buffalo on a short 10 to 14 day safari, but depending on what the others want most we are also looking at Mosambique and Botswana. If I did that it would be one buffalo and lepoard plus plains game. Although my first trip was to South Africa and I ended up taking 11 plains game animals, so that amount of taxidermy nearly broke the bank. So this time I'm thinking 2 major animals and possibly a couple plains game if I found something I couldn't resist.
- Location
- AB foothills
Gatehouse said:Ignore the "price conscious shopper crap" If you were price conscious youd' be enquiring about a Stevens 200 in 30-06..
The best thing I have read today
Couldn't have said it better myself......
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
Dogleg said:MyRam,
Far too much fuss is made about brass costs. You don't need a thousand of them, and at the 30-30 pressure that the Rigby runs at cases last a long time. I have 170 cases for mine, yet have done all my shooting with the same fifty Norma.They are on their 14th loading. My plan is to use new brass in Africa, and hope to live long enough to lose the rest of them hunting, one case at a time.
Perhaps, but I've got 500 .375 Ultra cases, and at any one time 350 - 400 are loaded in a variety of bullet weights and styles. The cost of doing this with a .416 Rigby is beyond my reach. Neither did I find that the Norma brass would last much more that 5 loadings, by which time the primer pockets had expanded. Because I was carrying my rifle almost every day, year round, the chances of loosing a cartridge here and there was always present. I am much happier with the cost of Ultra brass.
Boomer: now that you mention it, I've heard of pressure problems with the .416 Rem. when it's 100 deg + not the best time to have a bolt freeze shut when you've already shot one round from your dangerous game rifle.
And somehow the Rigby fits an African safari.
Do you or anyone else know of a gunsmith who specializes or has lots of experience in dangerous game rifles?
And somehow the Rigby fits an African safari.
Do you or anyone else know of a gunsmith who specializes or has lots of experience in dangerous game rifles?
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
Both Pounder and myself have had top quality work done by Dave Jennings in Pritchard BC.
If you have not been to the Selous before, you're going to love it. Lots of game and real African wilderness.
If you have not been to the Selous before, you're going to love it. Lots of game and real African wilderness.
MyRam,
My CZs weigh in at 10 1/4 & 10 1/2 pounds scoped and ready to go.At that weight I'd still call them nimble. The RSM is one heck of a lot heavier than that. Recoil isn't bad with the .416, but you don't have to ask anyone if it went off. The .375 is a pushover. I don't have any problem shooting up to 35 or 40 rounds with the Rigby, so don't see the need for more weight. I still have all my fillings too! You'll have to heft the Ruger and make up your own mind. Everyone is different, and the weight of fancy stocks varies a lot too.
Tanzania is a good location for buffalo I'm told. Someday I'll find out for myself. You can also take two buffalo on short hunts in Zimbabwe, provided the operator lets you. They have a lot of control over their quota and would rather spread them across more hunters and days. They are allowing me 2 bulls on an eight day hunt in July though. I'm also thinking giraffe and zebra plus whatever other plains game looks good. The preceding week will be in RSA for eland, red hartebeeste, warthog, blesbuck, steinbuck, and black wildebeast. We leave on July 2nd.
My CZs weigh in at 10 1/4 & 10 1/2 pounds scoped and ready to go.At that weight I'd still call them nimble. The RSM is one heck of a lot heavier than that. Recoil isn't bad with the .416, but you don't have to ask anyone if it went off. The .375 is a pushover. I don't have any problem shooting up to 35 or 40 rounds with the Rigby, so don't see the need for more weight. I still have all my fillings too! You'll have to heft the Ruger and make up your own mind. Everyone is different, and the weight of fancy stocks varies a lot too.
Tanzania is a good location for buffalo I'm told. Someday I'll find out for myself. You can also take two buffalo on short hunts in Zimbabwe, provided the operator lets you. They have a lot of control over their quota and would rather spread them across more hunters and days. They are allowing me 2 bulls on an eight day hunt in July though. I'm also thinking giraffe and zebra plus whatever other plains game looks good. The preceding week will be in RSA for eland, red hartebeeste, warthog, blesbuck, steinbuck, and black wildebeast. We leave on July 2nd.
Dogleg: I will check into the CZ's for options and avalibility, I don't have any experience with them except my CZ452 which is very accurate, even with a gravelly, heavy trigger. It's just that lately I have a real thing for classic lines and ebony forend caps. I've recently aquired 3 Kimber BGRs in .270, .338 and .375 H&H and thinking of trading off some of my "plastic" stocked rifles but a couple years ago if it wasn't stainless, composite I wouldn't look at it. I guess that's why gun dealers are all rich.
By the way the green face is from envy I wish I could go every year. If I was going now I would look at Zim as well but I would spend a lot of sleepless nights worrying about the political situation there if I booked for two years from now. It sounds like a civil war is brewing and several sites I looked at the white farmers/ safari operators had been displaced by the " war vets" including Kevin Robertson who wrote " The Perfect Shot".
Anyway have a great trip and please post a report/pictures when you get back. If you need a gun bearer be sure and call, I will work for free if you buy the plane ticket. Then you wouldn't have to worry how heavy those CZs are.
By the way the green face is from envy
I wish I could go every year. If I was going now I would look at Zim as well but I would spend a lot of sleepless nights worrying about the political situation there if I booked for two years from now. It sounds like a civil war is brewing and several sites I looked at the white farmers/ safari operators had been displaced by the " war vets" including Kevin Robertson who wrote " The Perfect Shot".Anyway have a great trip and please post a report/pictures when you get back. If you need a gun bearer be sure and call, I will work for free if you buy the plane ticket. Then you wouldn't have to worry how heavy those CZs are.
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
I've got a RSM in 416 Rigby. I haven't shot it a ton but there were no issues with the stock. It does have one cross bolt and that funny 45 degree screw and recoil hanger as part of it. I believe the cracked stocks were with the regular M77s that were reworked to take long calibers liek the 375 H&H (Dave Scovill of Rifle magazine had a 300 reworked to take the 375 IIRC and it cracked a stock until a new stock was fitted with crossbolts). I had mine bedded by HWSNBN but that was because I'm a rifle crank. He also supplied me with brass and dies. Should be even more reasonable now that he imports from Midway.
A friend that went on safari with me also has a RSM in 416 and has had it for many years with no problems. My load was a 350 gr Barnes X ahead of 101 gr of H4831SC. Should give somewhere on the order of 2600 FPS though I haven't chrono'd it yet. Shoots well sub MOA and recoils like nothing. Doug was using a stout load with 300 gr Barnes X. It was a bit more unpleasant, btu I shot it off the bench to sight it in and fired four shots without a shoulder pad (I usually use one when test firing any heavy recoiling rifle) with no ill effects. Mine wears a 1.5-5x Leupold with a heavy duplex in Ruger rings. Dougs has a Tasco 1-4x in 30mm Ruger Rings (I believe). Mine doesn't foul inordinately and feeds perfectly. I like that I can load the mag, slip a round into the chamber and close the bolt on a loaded round (yes, I know some of you get right nervy about people walking with a loaded rifle, but I think the paranoia is unwarranted).
I don't think you could go wrong with a RSM. My PH in Africa just bought one in 458 Lott as a backup rifle for guiding clients for Buffalo. I can't give a more ringing endorsement.
A friend that went on safari with me also has a RSM in 416 and has had it for many years with no problems. My load was a 350 gr Barnes X ahead of 101 gr of H4831SC. Should give somewhere on the order of 2600 FPS though I haven't chrono'd it yet. Shoots well sub MOA and recoils like nothing. Doug was using a stout load with 300 gr Barnes X. It was a bit more unpleasant, btu I shot it off the bench to sight it in and fired four shots without a shoulder pad (I usually use one when test firing any heavy recoiling rifle) with no ill effects. Mine wears a 1.5-5x Leupold with a heavy duplex in Ruger rings. Dougs has a Tasco 1-4x in 30mm Ruger Rings (I believe). Mine doesn't foul inordinately and feeds perfectly. I like that I can load the mag, slip a round into the chamber and close the bolt on a loaded round (yes, I know some of you get right nervy about people walking with a loaded rifle, but I think the paranoia is unwarranted).
I don't think you could go wrong with a RSM. My PH in Africa just bought one in 458 Lott as a backup rifle for guiding clients for Buffalo. I can't give a more ringing endorsement.
Having come up through 3-position shooting I love the shooting sling. I think the whole idea with the barrel band, however, is that it's just for carrying. I think it might be preferable to shoot off hand (in various positions), or off sticks, etc... Otherwise, you may be thinking about looping the sling, when all your energy should be on thumping a big target up close.
I'm currently working on a stopping rifle myself and I am examining what the boys are doing with the assault rifle sling. There, it's often being used just to carry gun weight, promote retention, etc... Those guys sometimes do need to do accurate shooting, but they rarely seem to sling up for it. I'm wondering who is carrying the rifle? Personally I want to carry it, but if there is still such a thing as a bearer, that would be a vote for a very open sling like a barrel band to butt sling. If I'm carrying it, and I'm not looping up, then I am looking for something quite a bit different.
I'm currently working on a stopping rifle myself and I am examining what the boys are doing with the assault rifle sling. There, it's often being used just to carry gun weight, promote retention, etc... Those guys sometimes do need to do accurate shooting, but they rarely seem to sling up for it. I'm wondering who is carrying the rifle? Personally I want to carry it, but if there is still such a thing as a bearer, that would be a vote for a very open sling like a barrel band to butt sling. If I'm carrying it, and I'm not looping up, then I am looking for something quite a bit different.
SuperCu
Not sure about the .416 Taylor but the idea of a custom built mauser does appeal. The big thing would be cost, I think the Ruger at $2000 plus bedding, trigger work etc. can be done for under $3000 tax included. Any idea what a custom mauser would run a fellow? I realize it would depend on the level of finish and options, but say something with a nice piece of wood like the Ruger but not to fancy, and can you recomend anyone that builds dangerous game rifles? 
Not sure about the .416 Taylor but the idea of a custom built mauser does appeal. The big thing would be cost, I think the Ruger at $2000 plus bedding, trigger work etc. can be done for under $3000 tax included. Any idea what a custom mauser would run a fellow? I realize it would depend on the level of finish and options, but say something with a nice piece of wood like the Ruger but not to fancy, and can you recomend anyone that builds dangerous game rifles? 
