44-40 Brass Problem

fralic76

fralic76

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Nova Scotia, down on the South Shore
I have looked for this answer on the site for 2 hours but could not find anything, so here is what the problem is.
I reload for 44-40, I use Lee dies. I have new Starline brass that I sized and trimmed, and I have some Starline brass that I have fired out of my Winchester 1892 (serial # out it to be made in 1914) and sized. I just bought a Pietta revolver chambered for 44-40, the new sized brass fits with no problem but the fired rifle brass that has been sized will not go the whole way into the cylinder of the revolver. I'm thinking the rifle chamber is out of spec because of the age of it. But don't know why it won't fit after it has been sized. Is there anything that I'm missing so I can use it in the revolver?

I have fired some new brass in the revolver sized them and they fit.

Any help would be great.
 
The chamber in the rifle is oversize compared to the revolver. The sizing die is unable to bring the oversize brass back to spec. This is relatively common. You'll have to segregate brass.
 
fralic76 said:
The die set is an old set that I pick up off EE, could I get a new die set. Would that fix the problem?
Click to expand...

It should.
Any case properly resized with good dies should bring the case back to standard size, so they will fit into any firearm designed for that case.
Before you buy new dies, make sure you are sizing them properly with the dies you have.
Bruce
 
Think it is the dies, I was talking with some of the guys from my gun club who reload and they think the steel sizing die has worn out a bit. The brass that is fired and sized from the rifle will stop about 3/8" from going in the cylinder the whole way.

Thanks for the information and the confirmation. This is why I love this site, if you can't find the answer in the forums. Ask and the experienced people here help us less experienced.
Thk
 
The 44-40 and the 38-40 mostly the latter, expand a hell of a lot on firing, far more than most cartridges do. Chamber dimensions are all over the map.

To use the brass in both firearms, you may need to order a custom sizing die. I think pretty much all die manufacturers offer the service.
They will want you to send a few fired cases from the firearm that leaves the brass the smallest after firing. The will make a die to resize it to fit that firearm. It will then of course fit the one with the larger chamber as well.
This solution does work the brass more, but it eliminates having to sort your brass for each firearm.

I suggest contacting them directly rather than going through your dealer for this one, just to avoid confusion and speed things up. You don't need a whole set, just the one sizing die.

BTW, if you are new to reloading, make absolutely sure that the resizing die is firmly hitting the shell holder on those existing dies. One other trick, on a tapered case like the 44-40 is to trim some off the top of the shellholder. This allows the die to come down a fraction further, making the case resize slightly more. Shellholders are WAY cheaper than dies. Personally, that's the route I would try first.
It's not safe to do this on a cartridge that headspaces on the shoulder, however, the 44-40 headspaces on the rim, so you're fine.
 
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I had a similar issue; some 44-40 bullets are 0.427" OD and the reloaded rounds chamber in both my rifle and revolver. Other brands are 0.429" OD and chambered OK in the rifle but in the revolver some were OK and some not OK. Patience and a new set of RCBS COWBOY DIES solved my problem. Also useful was a new Winchester factory round used as a pattern to set the seating and crimping die. I follow with a Lee Factory Crimp Die. Good luck! bogus
 
There are two types of sizing dies for the 38-40 and the 44-40........in the old days it was believed that it was better to make the cartridge quite small and keep the shoulder way back and allow it to blow out upon firing. This assured good functioning of the rifle and 100% reliable feeding AND reloading cases wasn't a paramount concern of ammo companies back then. There are many cartridges and chambers that were designed like this, my 470 NE is the same. Now we come to today and there are still two chamber dimensions and two die dimensions..........RCBS offers dies for original case dimensions and for "as fired" dimension, your handgun is obviously chambered to the case drawings of old while your 92 is cut to the old chamber dimensions. You should be using 2 sets of dies for these two firearms. If you take a fired case from your rifle and set it right next to your handgun case you will no doubt notice that the shoulder from the rifle fired case is forward about 300-350 thou of the pistol fired case. The 38-40 is even worse and more pronounced, in fact factory ammo fired in one of my original Colts splits the brass on firing. This is how I found out about the 2 dimensions when I researched why it was doing this. SOOOOOO......you need to keep your brass for your 2 44-40s separate because if you work your brass enough to fit both chambers your rifle will start to split shoulders within 2-3 firings. Reloading for the old Winchester cartridges and a lot of the old bottle neck Sharps and NE cartridges is different than modern rifle and handgun loading, you need to educate yourself on the different loading procedures for these old girls and not listen to advice given relevant to modern cartridges and procedures.
If you give the guys at Huntington Specialties a call they will explain the differences as I have here and there is a name for the two different dies, there is the one which will take it back to full original CASE dimensions which is a regular FL die I believe, but then there is a die that sizes it using the fired or chamber dimensions and it has a specific name which I don't remember.
 
shell holders can be very hard material, a file won't touch them and sanding with emery cloth will take a life time to get enough metal removed to make any difference. If you have a buddy or fellow shooter who has access to a machine shop surface grinder would be the quickest way to remove an accurate 10 thou or so.
 
I shoot a Uberti Henry and a Pietta 1873 Colt copy in .44-40.

The Pietta chambers are tight and the cartridges have to be firmly pushed in.

I also resize my cartridges twice, after the first full length resize I rotate the cartridge a 1/4 or 1/2 turn and run it into the resizing dies again for the Pietta.
 
I fixed the issue, what I did was file a little off the top (about a thou or so) of the shell holder. Now the brass fits perfect, so it was either the shell hold not letting the brass go all the way in the die to the right spot or the die is worn a bit at the shoulder.
Thank you again for all the information.
 
Here is a pic of it finally.
Pietta%201873%20Right%20Side_zpsqo0uswoo.jpg

Pietta%201873%20Left%20Side_zpsnh2qvkwv.jpg
 
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