44-40 In a Modern Revolver: Did anyone get it right?

Milspectacles

Milspectacles

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Recently I've been thinking about picking up a modern production SAA or clone that I can shoot more often than my original Colts - as one can imagine, there is a near-endless amount of configurations to choose from. As of yet, I still haven't decided whether I would get a new caliber or one that I load for already, I have been looking at some 44-40s as they tend to perform better when shooting BP and would pair nicely with a potential rifle down the road. However it seems that this caliber has been plagued with issues in manufacturing since the cowboy era, here is some of the info on makes and models in this caliber I have found out:

Colt

Completely skipped over this caliber for their 2nd generation of SAA's other than a few commemoratives, currently offered only through custom shop orders on the 3rd generations. Available in used New Frontier models but have varied reports on overall quality and accuracy.

Ruger

Apparently was only produced on the original Vaqueros and was a complete disaster. Opted to used .44 magnum barrels with .429-.431 grooves but made the cylinders with cylinder mouths reportedly as small as .425-.423(!!!!) Obviously accuracy goes out the window here with 9-15" groups demonstrated at close quarters. Various anecdotes about these guns being returned to Ruger and getting sent back with no changes and Ruger profusely assuring the guns were in spec - they will now no longer do factory work on 44-40 guns is the latest hearsay. Seems that the only real way to get accuracy is reaming the chambers to .430 range and loading with standard .44 projectiles - at this point it seems silly to not just get a .44 special instead.

Uberti/Pietta

Bit of a mixed bag here, I have heard great reports of guns with proper-"ish" .427 groove barrels that work well with original spec projectiles. I have also seen reports of guns made similar to the Rugers with .429 groove barrels but at least consistent chambers, accuracy isn't great but more passable.

(Bonus) S&W

Not actually a SAA clone but for really the only modernized .44-40 I can find is the Smith 544 Texas Commemorative. These guns are reasonably available in the US and were made properly to 44-40 specs according to many reports - excellent shooters all around I have heard.


So when considering the cartridge itself and some of the complications reloading in (thin brass, non-standard projectiles, less overall availability, crushed case mouths if one is not careful enough) alongside the fact that even if everything is right ammo-wise, your gun may not be: is it crazy to even be considering this round in a new shooter? After a couple afternoons of reading about the issues in modern-produced 44-40 revolvers I am almost steering completely away and considering getting something else like a .38-40 or old standard .45 Colt at this rate.

I would be interested in hearing about the experiences and/or suggestions from CGN! What cartridge do you shoot in your SAA? Is the .44-40 nostalgia worth the hassle when other cowboy calibers are available?
 
Poor caliber for shooting...not accurate, a pain to reload + the rarity of components...you're better off with a 44 Spl / 45 Colt !!

My experience is based on various Colt SAA's I ve had over the years. My 3rd Gen 4 3/4 in 44-40 win does 1 1/2 in @ 15 yds, very poor accuracy for my standards. And I have to use a .430 cast SWC out of a .427 bore to get these results...

Get something else than a 44-40 wcf.....
 
I suppose it depends on what you consider getting it right. As you're likely aware, most if not all manufacturers of reproduction .44-40 revolvers and rifles, have universally adopted .429" as a standard bore diameter. Any new reproduction cylinder mouths I've measured (Pietta), ran around .432" So no issues with chamber throat/forcing cone relationship. Accuracy is quite good. Components like bullets, etc., are readily available. The only issue I've experienced with this move is that, there are some underlying cartridge reloading issues that may need to be resolved. Bullet seating, in particular.

Since many reloading die sets are still spec'd to original .427" bullet dimension, seating a .430" (nominal) diameter bullet puts added stress on an already relatively fragile case neck. Often resulting in collapsed case necks. The cure: Swap out the expander ball for one in .429". Which may mean having to purchase a separate die set...ie: .44 Magnum, and cannibalize its expander ball to better accommodate the larger diameter bullet. So the added cost involved may be an issue.

Note: This adaptation applies only to modern reproduction firearms.

It bears mentioning that, after a fair bit of experimentation, I found that RCBS "Cowboy" .44-40 reloading dies worked about the best for this purpose. Mated with an RCBS .44 mag expander. The expander ball gently polished until very smooth. Cases are lightly lubed, inside(case neck) and out. No problems to date. When switching over to my original 1873 Winchester rifle, I switch the expander back to its original .428", and carry on as usual.

As you already mentioned, the .44-40 is a great black powder cartridge. It is. The .44 WCF (Winchester Centerfire Cartridge) marked a significant advancement in cartridge technology, when introduced in 1873. Its generous internal case capacity lends itself very well to black powder. The thin case neck expands easily and efficiently seals the chamber against blow back. So the receiver remains very clean, over repeated firings. As does its brother, the .38-40. So the .44-40 and .38-40 are good choices, for those who wish to shoot these firearms exclusively, with black powder. Have done so for better than 30 years, now.

Unlike .45 Colt. Blow back is often a problem with this cartridge. As its thicker case walls often don't expand enough to prevent soot and other contamination from flowing past the cartridge and getting into the action. Often interfering with the action cycling smoothly. Not generally a problem with .45 Colt revolvers. But definitely, in rifles. So more frequent cleaning is necessary. Not really an issue though, if a shooter sticks to a regular cleaning regimen. I see quite a few shooters who do shoot bp in .45 Colt chambered firearms though. Including rifles. So it isn't that much of a problem. Annealing the cartridge case mouth helps.

The .44-40 does work very well with smokeless powder. It responds well to fairly bulky powder. Unique/Universal delivers good performance. There are others, but these are a good place to start.

Likewise, the .38-40. Another great bp cartridge. That made the transition to smokeless quite easily. Only problem I've encountered when reloading this cartridge, is lack of suitable commercially available bullets. Though not that great a problem. Jethunter would likely be able to help you out. Plus there are others. Bullet Barn, for example.

Many of the nominal .400" bullets currently available, are better suited to self-loaders, like the .40 S &W. These bullets lack a cannelure in which to crimp the case mouth. And as anyone who loads either .44-40 or .38-40 knows, a proper crimp is essential to make these cartridges feed right. Suitable bullets are available, though. If you prefer to cast your own, there are plenty of sources for molds, etc. I prefer Accurate molds, but there are others.

As a matter of interest, the Redding Profile Crimp die produces very consistent crimps with the .44-40. As do RCBS....and surprising to some....Lee Factory Crimp die.

As for your concerns about reloading either the .44-40 or .38-40: Contrary to some opinion, I've never had any real problems when reloading either of these cartridges. They simply require a bit more finesse in the loading process, that's all. In other words: Slow down, pay attention and don't get ham fisted operating the press. Do pay particular attention to the crimp. Likely the most critical part of the operation. Avoid over crimping. Will cause nasty bulged case necks and rounds won't chamber. Again, not an issue, if paying attention to the process.

Another critical reloading area is case mouth flare. Too little or too much can cause problems.

My final thoughts: Are you crazy to consider owning revolvers/rifles chambered in .44-40 or .38-40? Not at all, in my opinion. A person simply needs to be committed to the special considerations these historically important cartridges require. Do these cartridges represent too many challenges to be viable? I don't think so. If you are the type of person who enjoys taking on challenges and learning from the experience, these represent a great outlet from which to learn and grow. They're also a hoot and a half, to shoot!

Since you already own Colt revolvers: Does it make sense to invest in an entire new set of reloading gear, accessories, components, etc. When you're already set up for the ones you have? Is it worth the hassle? In practical terms: Maybe not. In which case, I'd recommend simply purchasing a revolver or rifle chambered in .45 Colt and don't look back. But I believe there will always be that itch that will need scratching.

Al

ps: Either Taylors or Cimarron offered revolvers chambered in .44 Special, at one time. Not sure whether they still do. Might be worth a look, for those interested.
 
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I have a Ruger Vaquero, and all dimensions seem to be spot on. Perhaps I'm lucky, so I'd suggest a bit of measuring before you buy. Grooves a bit + of 429, with 417 lands, and throats about 0.001" over groove dia. My Uberti 1873 rifle has about the same bore/groove and the same ammo works in both.

I recently added a Taylors Uberti and the barrel is similar but the throats are 432. Same ammo works in it though.

A wise man once said: "If it has a cylinder and a trigger, it's flakey". Wheel guns are a beast unto themselves, and the 44-40 is a cartridge that stands alone, with only the 38-40 as kin.

It takes a bit of effort, but the 44 Mag can be loaded for Cowboy, plinking, and beyond. But if you like nostalgia, 44-40 is the way to go. And if you own a companion rifle, nothing feeds as smoothly as a 44-40 or 38-40, fact, not just opinion.
 
nitro-express: I echo your comment on the smooth feeding .44-40 and .38-40. I don't believe any other lever rifle cartridge runs smoother. As a shooting friend of mine once said: "Loads slicker than greased weasel s...t!" Colourful, but true.
You are right about .44 mag and its .44 Special companion, too. I know several very active Cowboy Action shooters that run rifles chambered for the .44Mag, with good success. Generally going with .44 Special cartridges.

Al

ps I am especially fond of the .38-40. I would really like to see either Uberti or Winchester come out with a run of 1873's or 1892's, in this chambering.
 
To Alex McKr

That makes a lot of sense now that you mention the dies remaining unchanged - a lot of the reloaders I read from have used original Winchester and Lyman tools and moulds to load standard spec cartridges and never reported any issues, however adding a wider bullet into the mix and changing nothing else would definitely cause issues. I also saw a CAS shooter who ran 44-40 that claimed to have over 85 loadings of the same batch of 44-40 brass - attributing his success to a Lyman "M" die. I have also had success with the RCBS Cowboy dies mentioned, although for 32-20.

I also heard that Unique and Universal were go-to powders for this caliber, just as you said. One of the few positive Ruger Vaquero users also claimed these powders provided the most accurate loads from their gun.

To nitro-express
That is good to hear - Ruger makes fine revolvers, it just seems that the good reviews are far outweighed by the bad for this specific combination. Some say that guns were figured out by the end of production, others say it is just luck of the draw. There are a couple of these up for sale at the moment so maybe I'll see if I can get some measurements from the seller. Will do some more reading on the 38-40 as well.
 
Milspectacles: Since you're already familiar with loading the .32-20, transitioning to either the .38-40, or more readily available .44-40, should be a fairly simple one. I also like and use the "M" die. Mostly with .45-70.....but can certainly see where it would be beneficial for case expanding/belling, thin-walled .44-40 brass. Certainly extends useful case life. 85 loads on a single lot of brass seems pretty extreme, but entirely possible. Plus spectacular service life! Something I intend to pursue further.

Unique and Universal are so close in burning rate and performance, I consider them essentially the same powder. So use the same load data when working with either. Hodgdon Universal is generally the most readily available. Both are very versatile though, and considered a good "all around" powder for many loading tasks. I use it/them in any number of cartridges, from .38 Special, up to 12 gauge shotshells. Always a good choice in .45 Colt, too.


Al
 
bobdbldr: Your query about single action revolvers chambered in .44 Special tweaked my curiosity...so did a bit of digging.

Cimarron firearms lists at least one variation, chambered in .44 Special. May be worth a look. Cimarron also catalogs revolvers chambered in a
10 mm/.38-40 cylinder convertible version (Looks to be a Ruger Blackhawk).

Plus, the Model P. This time, chambered in .44 WCF( .44-40). The Model P is also chambered in a variety of other calibers.

Country Classics is the exclusive Canadian dealer for Cimarron products. Del Strazza is the fella to talk to.

Hope the info is useful.

Al
 
Alex McKr said:
bobdbldr: Your query about single action revolvers chambered in .44 Special tweaked my curiosity...so did a bit of digging.

Cimarron firearms lists at least one variation, chambered in .44 Special. May be worth a look. Cimarron also catalogs revolvers chambered in a
10 mm/.38-40 cylinder convertible version (Looks to be a Ruger Blackhawk).

Plus, the Model P. This time, chambered in .44 WCF( .44-40). The Model P is also chambered in a variety of other calibers.

Country Classics is the exclusive Canadian dealer for Cimarron products. Del Strazza is the fella to talk to.

Hope the info is useful.

Al
Click to expand...
Thanks very much, good to know they have some in .44 special, a few months ago I purchased a Cimarron copy of the Remington 1875 outlaw in .45 LC /extra cylinder for .45 ACP, from IRG, had they shown one in .44 special it would have been mine!
 
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