44 mag safe load

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pastway

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I posted a while back about some 44 mag loads I was working on. I did find an accurate load for my gun, hopefully for hunting season, of 21 grs. of H110 behind a Hornady 265 gr. bullet. My question is, is this a safe load to continue shooting out of my Winchester 94 Trapper? It doesn't totally flatten the primers, but it will almost flatten the shooter :), as the recoil from that load in the Trapper seems as heavy as the same bullet from the 444 Marlin at max loads for it. The reason for me asking, is I read on another thread recently about someone who eventually damaged a 44 mag gun shooting a lot of heavy loads out of it. Also, this recipe isn't strictly by the book, but is based on Hodgdon's load for a 270 gr jacketed bullet, so I reduced the max load by 0.5gr, thinking it should fall in a safe zone of not too much or too little powder. The H110 is a fussy powder, and the many warnings you see about it, some on Hodgdon's site, make me think I should have chosen a different powder.
 
I'm shooting 20 grs of H-110 behind a 325 gr cast bullet in my .44 Super Blackhawk, so I am sure 21 grs behind a 265 gr bullet will be safe in your rifle. According to my recoil calculator, a .444 when loaded with the 265 gr bullet at 2100 generates about 27 ft/lbs while the .44 with the load you question gives about 14 ft/lbs when both rounds are fired from a 7 pound rifle. Felt recoil could be significantly different for a number of reasons, but this is not reliable way to judge the safe limits of a load.

Which brings about the question - how did you decide on 21 grs of powder? The right way to do things is to work up slowly - from 10% below the suggested maximum load. Because the .44 has a small case capacity you would want to increase by half grain increments. If you shot over a chronograph you would see the velocity platuea as you got close to maximum, but without the chronograph, sticky extraction will tell you that you need to back off a full grain. If you reach the maximum suggested load in the manual with no sticky extraction, you gain nothing by going farther, stop there!
 
The right way to do things is to work up slowly - from 10% below the suggested maximum load.
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Not the case with H110, according to Hodgdon; H110 should not be downloaded more then 3% (below the max load.)

Check Hodgdon.com for load data... but "21 grs. of H110 behind a Hornady 265 gr. bullet" should be OK.
 
"...decide on 21 grs..." 21.5 is the max load given for a 270 grain bullet. No 265 grain bullet listed. Makes perfect sense.
"...is this a safe load..." Yep. The Hodgdon load will do as long as your bullet is jacketed. Using data for a slightly heavier bullet is ok. 5 grains of bullet weight isn't that much difference.
The felt recoil is from using a big honkin' bullet at about 1600fps out of a 6 pound rifle. No Win 94 weighs much. 7 pounds with a 26" barrel is the heaviest. Got rid of a .30-30, long ago, for the same reason. Far too much felt recoil for the power of the cartridge.
 
IM_Lugger said:
Not the case with H110, according to Hodgdon; H110 should not be downloaded more then 3% (below the max load.)

Check Hodgdon.com for load data... but "21 grs. of H110 behind a Hornady 265 gr. bullet" should be OK.
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With the 265 gr bullet, the new Hornady manual lists 16.6 as a minimum load and 23.2 as maximum in the .44 magnum rifle data. I said to begin 10% below maximum which is 20.2 grs. Are you suggesting the load data in the Hornady manual is dangerous?

I have seen mistakes printed in manuals, but I have never seen dangerous loads listed. Regardless, approaching maximum loads slowly and carefully is the only safe proceedure.
 
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I've worked my way up to 19.5grs. of H-110 behind the 325gr. cast bullet(hard GC) and 20.5grs. behind a 290 gr. hard cast LFN, both work great in my Marlin '94. The hard cast bullets give a bit of a safety margin over jacketed as they produce less pressure in any given load(if everything else is the same). I would def. start at 10% below max. with H110 in the .44(that's only 2 grs.)
 
Thanks for those who've replied. I've gone back to Hodgdon's website again to confirm, and they do say emphatically (bold print) not to reduce their maximum loads more than 3% with H110, when a start load is not given. A good portion of their warnings, which you must click to agree to to get into their site, is about H110 powder. Reducing more than 3%, they say, can cause inconsistent ignition possibly resulting in a lodged bullet.

They do not list a load for the 265gr Hornady bullet on their website. I don't have their latest manual. But for the 270 gr bullet, they list a start load of 19.5 gr and a max load of 21.5 gr. That would be about a 10% reduction from the max load. But if you look at the data for the 240 gr bullet, start load is 23 gr and max load is 24 gr, or about the 3%. The same holds for the 300 gr bullet listed, start load at 18gr and max load at 19gr, or about the 3% (actually closer to 5%).

I don't understand this powder, but am thinking that maybe it has to do not only with bullet weight, but with case size. Perhaps the case has to be full or near full for consistent safe ignition, and for safe pressures. That is why I am asking about the 265 gr Hornady bullet that is made specifically, I think, for the 444 Marlin. Because it has one crimp groove, you cannot vary the depth of seating very much. I'm not sure how the 270 gr SPR GDSP bullet listed in their tables compares to seating depth. So going by bullet weight only, I tried to guess somewhere that might be safe for the 265 gr Hornady bullet. 21gr of H110 seemed reasonable, as the bullet is only 5 grs different in weight. I really don't know how it would compare to available case volume when the 270 gr bullet is seated to its crimp line.
 
Since this is a rifle bullet, why done you go with their handgun bullets and not be worrying yourself?
 
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Gibbs505 said:
Since this is a rifle bullet, why done you go with their handgun bullets and not be worrying yourself?
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Before going to the Hornady 265 gr bullet, I tried the Remington 240 gr jacketed SP pistol bullet, with 23gr, 23.5 gr, and 24 gr of H110, which is all the variation the tables allow. None of them would group in my Win 94 Trapper. The 265 gr Hornady pushed by 21 gr of H110 groups very well.
 
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