44 Russian Cartridge Problems.

[sportee]

Well im loading up a couple dozen rounds to put through the new Merwin next week and i thought i would try a few empties through the gun to see how it functions.

I primed some shortened 44spl cases with mag primers, loaded them into the cylinder and fired them off in the garage. Almost all of the primers backed out of the cases...and not just a little, they were pushed out so far they jammed up the cylinder and i had to take the gun apart to get the cartridges out.

Primer pockets appear to be OK...when i primed the brass they were very tight.

What's going on???

 

[dingus]

HaHaHa that happens with any revolver if you use Empty cases.

Once you load them up with a bullet and powder the primers will stay put.

Sorry for the Laugh its only cause i was once where you are but its Funny when its someone else

 

[sportee]

Really...

Ive actually never fired empties through a revolver so this is a first for me.

What i was doing was checking some old primers i have. I had them misfire a lot in an old .455 i had...I wanted to see if it was a bad batch of primers or if it was just the gun so I tried a few in the Merwin to wee what they would do.

So now here's a question...Why do they back out with no powder but stay put with powder and bullet? You'ld think it would work the other way 'round.

 

[Win 38-55]

By gum, Dingus, I didn't know that, although I've never fired empties in my old sixguns.

 

[dingus]

Ya you would think that it would be the other way, but its physics.
i dont have a clue why!
Ask Mooncoon.

I know what causes the Primers to Flow and flatten tho
Loading the ammo to hot.
Ive had some wicked primer flow in some of my testings.

worst ever was with full Pyrodex loads in the 45 colt, go figger.
Man but them bullets was moveing with some thump!

 

[sportee]

Well, i just loaded up a couple dozen rounds with 16 grains PyroP and a 200 grain bullet...We'll see how it goes.

 

[mooncoon]

Ya you would think that it would be the other way, but its physics.
i dont have a clue why!
Ask Mooncoon.

I think you need a bit of headspace for the problem to occur. With no powder the primer goes off and the pressure of the priming (only) pushes the primer backwards. If the shell is loaded then the pressure of the main charge drives the shell back over the primer again. In the case of high pressure loads, the case probably stretches and/or separates to make up the gap because the shell would temporarily stick to the chamber walls

cheers Doug

 

[tonyg]

Don't feel bad Sportee , did exactly the same thing with my old .44

 

[GrantR]

The same thing can happen with blanks .....

IIRC, the primer will always be pushed partway out of the primer pocket in any firearm in which the base of the casing isn't flush against a breech face or bolt face when the primer is fired .... in other words, it happens in a revolver simply because there is room for the primer to back out.

I understand that much of this primer movement is caused solely by the pressure generated by the primer flash in the pocket (which has only a little flash channel to escape through) .... explaining why it will occur so noticeably with an empty case, let alone a blank with a powder charge. I know that guys that do "re-enacting", or put on the Wild West type of shows using blanks in revolvers, will have a dedicated set of cartridge cases with the flash holes drilled out much larger, to minimize this effect .... which, as you found, can jam a revolver up "but good".

On the other hand, when a loaded cartridge is fired (i.e. when a bullet must be forced out of the case mouth and down the barrel) then the resulting backpressure slams the cartridge case rearward against the recoil shield with enough force to re-seat the primer in the pocket. That "re-seating" doesn't happen to the same extent (if at all) with an empty casing or blank cartridge.