44 spl, tight cases

[curtmg]

Die 1- resizes brass, has decapping pin. set die in press to resize case, and remove primer. Doesn't make any difference mag or spl, in this step.

Die 2- Flares brass. NO DECAPPER IN THIS DIE. Set die in press, and adjust the flaring bell, so that it just flares the case mouth. Flaring bell will need to be lower for spl, than for mag, as spl is shorter. If you are using Lee dies, the flaring bell is probably hollow, as folk using a progressive, like to put powder in the case at this step.

Die 3- seats bullet, and crimps case. Sit the bullet in the case, and adjust the seater to proper cartridge length. Once length is set, back of seater, and crank down the die as a whole, to set proper crimp. Then with cartridge still up in die, crank back down the seating stem. This will seat and crimp in one step. Alternately, you could do these steps separately, crimping with the same die, or with a Lee factory crimp die.

Of course before seating a bullet, you'll be priming and putting powder in the case. I'm as confused as the rest of the responders, H4831 said it sounds like you are trying to flare the cases, in the sizing die. I agree, reading your post, that is how it sounds. Maybe try and type out your loading process, don't leave out any steps, seems like something is not getting done properly, or you are attempting to do something with the improper piece of equipment for the job.

Decapping pin- little skinny pin, in the sizing die, pokes out primer
Flaring bell- fat round thing in die 2, flares case for bullet seating
Flash hole- tiny hole in cartridge case, primer flash goes through, to ignite powder

If the brass is flared enough to seat the bullet, that's all you need. The less flaring, the longer your cases will last.

 

[vagrantviking]

Ya I'm lost too now....

I do have a really old set of RCBS dies that have the flaring cone on the decapping rod mounted in the belling die but my Lee (carbide) dies certainly don't.

I don't think that its possible to put the wrong pin or insert in the wrong die on the Lee set so I don't see how a person could decap without sizing at the same time.

Somewhere there is a basic mistake or misunderstanding and I'm at a loss to see where.

 

[sisiphunter]

Hi guys, sorry for all of he confusion, yes I did make a mistake, my dies are old RCBS dies. I just bought Lee 303 dies and got a little confused there. But anyways, like I described earlier my #1 sizes the diameter of the brass. #2 has a decapping pin and flaring bell.....The bell insert with decapping pin will not fit into the #1 die..I tried, just to make sure. My #3 die is for bullet seating and crimping on 44 mag only...The 44 spl is not long enough to reach the crimping rim in the die. Therefore I had to buy an inexpensive Lee roll crimp die for 44 Spl.


Now as to my process I actually use my #2 first, just with the decapping pin lower to remove primer, thats all. Then I lube and use #1 sizing die, then trim and clean primer pockets remove flashole burs, etc. I then use my #2 to flare the neck of the brass (or try to in 44 spl cases). Then easy enough #3 to seat the bullet.

So broken down:
1...decap
2...lube
3...#1 sizing die
4...trim (if needed)
5...Clean primer pockets
6...Remove burs from flashhole (if needed)
7...#2 flaring
8...Clean brass to remove lube
9...Prime
10...Powder
11...BUllet seating #3 die
12...Crimp
And of course lots of inspections in between
I can post pics later today if anyone wants to see this die set. I know this process works, I've been using it for years on 44 Mag and my father for many years before that with this same die set.

I know this sounds weird, like I say I load 303 and 7mm and this old 44 die set is all backwards...It works fine on 44Mag, but just will not flare the 44spl.

My main question here is "are new brass generally harder in your experience to size then used brass?" So far, I here, no they are not. I did try my once fired 44 spl and they are a little easier to size, hopefully with a little use the brass will be easier.

Thanks, Matt

 

[H4831]

Hello again,
Many of us wonder why you bother with 44 special brass? Why don't you just load down the 44 magnum? I loaded down the 44 magnum Marlin rifle for very young grand sons. I loaded them down a great deal lower than 44 special would be. Then, just kept increasing the load as the kids grew larger.
I sure learned something! I could never imagine a belling cone and decapping pin, in the same die.
Does new brass size harder than used? I really wouldn't know, because I have never in my life resized new brass. The brass is made by the factories to the same specifications as the brass in the loaded ammunition. I don't hear of many people resizing the factory ammo before they shoot it!
I can't understand how any 44 brass could be hard to size. I have always used carbide dies, so no lube required, but the straight sided cases are teh easiest of all cases to resize.
It seems like you wouldn't have any problems, if you just loaded down the ammo in 44 mag cases.

 

[Al-Sway]

Now that you explain your die set, what you have said starts to make sense. It was common in older die sets to size first, and then decap and bell (with a single stage press you would prime on the down stroke). Nothing unusual, just a different order.
You can certainly load in that order, as it seems to work for you.
If they are old dies, then they might be sizing smaller than some current dies; hence, the tight sizing on new cases. Hard to say.