444 or 45-70

[Weatherby2]

Good day folks thought i'd ask a question I'm looking for a lever action and can't decide between theses 2 marlin 444 or 45-70 pros and cons of both and which one would you pick?

 

[GMC403]

Depends on the application,
for me:
In a 22" barrel rifle setup for hunting deer, moose, elk. 444 Marlin.
In a 18.5" barrel carry guide gun, or light load plinker 45-70.

 

[bcsteve]

This is like the old .30-06 vs .270 question. Have a look on Marlinowners there is several threads on this. Personally I have a .444 but the .45-70 probably has a bit more bullet options.

 

[Doors of Perception]

They are pretty much the same gun - <150 yards range of pure awesomeness. The 45-70 has more choices for casting equipment, bullets, more available ammo (now), easier to find loaded ammunition, and more history with all that buffalo hunting and all. The 444 was introduced in the 1960's because the 45-70 virtually disappeared from the market place and marlin wanted to go all retro with a mighty big bore. The 45-70's reintroduction has effectively made the 444 obsolete. Now if your're comparing a 444 to a 44 mag - I would go 44 mag because higher capacity, cheaper to load and what ever you happen to hit a 200 yards won't know the difference.

 

[brybenn]

45/70. All the way. Over and over. Mouse to moose. Mild to wild. 250 grs to 600 grs depending on platform.

 

[bcsteve]

Now if your're comparing a 444 to a 44 mag - I would go 44 mag because higher capacity, cheaper to load and what ever you happen to hit a 200 yards won't know the difference.

If have to disagree on this. The .44 mag and the .444 Marlin are not in the same league. It's like comparing the .45 Colt to the .45-70. My .444 can throw 265 gr at 2300fps and 300 gr at 2200fps. Way beyond what the .44 mag can do.

 

[c.t.smith]

I love the 444. If you are shooting factory rounds the 444 is likely to be the hotter round as MOST 45-70 is loaded down to trap door levels. You can find buffalo bore amme ex. for it but it is more difficult to track down then 444 ammo. If you hand load or even better cast your own as well then either is mild to wild. yes the 45/70 can chuck heavier bullets but why? the 444 can throw 400gr bullets and the 45-70 can throw 500gr bullets but Im happy with 310gr cast.

Anyway both are fun guns get both

 

[Camp Cook]

I'm into 45-70's as far as I am concerned the only good reason to have a 444 Marlin is so the brass suppliers make brass so I can neck it down to wildcat cartridges for my T/C Contender carbines.

 

[Canuck Bob]

I love my 444S but a 45-70 would do just fine as well. The 265 Hornady FN has served me very well including moose. I feel it is a 200 yard rifle with my 2.5X Leupold Compact or 150 paces with the Williams FP peep. I have no need for shooting 400 grain bullets at top velocity. In fact either have substantial power downloaded to be a bit more pleasant to shoot. I am loyal to my 444 Marlin and have no desire for a 45-70.

If you want big thump handload the 45-70 with a 400+ grain bullet will give it. If you like interesting cartridges with an unusual history and want a more manageable thumper consider the 444. To handload heavy bullets, above 300-325 grains, seek out a later 444 with the quick twist Ballard barrel if that caliber interests you. Ammo availability can be an issue with 444 and I rarely see 45-70 on the shelf either. However I prefer unusual calibers like 22 Hornet, 32-20, 32 Special, and 444. Both cartridges have loyal followers for good reasons. They are perhaps the best moose rifles available in a lever with a peep sight or low power scope.

 

[Doors of Perception]

If have to disagree on this. The .44 mag and the .444 Marlin are not in the same league. It's like comparing the .45 Colt to the .45-70. My .444 can throw 265 gr at 2300fps and 300 gr at 2200fps. Way beyond what the .44 mag can do.

I agree good analogy between the 44mag and 45 colt: however the 44 mag is much more powerful than the 45 colt (originally a bp cartridge). Here are some ballistics tables - I used max velocities, and bullet data published in Lyman 49th ed. For the 45-70 I load my marlin to mv 2050 (chronograped). All three guns are shooting rainbows past 150 yards. The 45-70 is a little flatter for dear sized shot placement out to 200yards - however it kicks hard after 50 shots my shoulder is many shades of green, blue and purple and I can't even shoot a 22 afterwards. I have shot right through a 18" thick tree with it. The energy out to 100 will take down African game or a really pissed off brown bear. (have to wait until monday for bear defense threads)

In terms of efficiency the 44 mag stands up to the other 2 at 150 yards, 900ft/lps of energy is good for most game (except brown bears)

Now the charts


44mag (carbine) 265gr bc: 0.189 mv: 1700

(yd) (in) (s) (ft.lbf) (ft/s)
0 -1.50 0.00 1701 1700
50 1.14 0.09 1372 1527
100 0.02 0.20 1108 1372
150 -5.73 0.31 904 1239
200 -17.15 0.44 756 1133

444 mar (carbine) 265gr bc: 0.189 mv: 2000

(yd) (in) (s) (ft.lbf) (ft/s)
0 -1.50 0.00 2354 2000
50 0.60 0.08 1914 1804
100 0.01 0.17 1548 1622
150 -3.90 0.26 1249 1457
200 -11.91 0.37 1012 1311

4570 carbine 405gr 2025fps bc:

(yd) (in) (s) (ft.lbf) (ft/s)
0 -1.50 0.00 3780 2050
50 0.43 0.08 3335 1926
100 0.01 0.16 2935 1806
150 -3.08 0.24 2577 1693
200 -9.21 0.33 2259 1585
250 -18.80 0.43 1979 1483

 

[Camp Cook]

I have to disagree on the 44mag especially in a carbine being more powerful than the 45 Colt it just doesn't compare in thump with the modern day loads available now.

Yes a 44mag can be loaded to higher pressures but the heavier bullets and top loads in 45 Colt just out perform the 44mag.

Look up John Linebaugh if you doubt me.