45/70 300 Grain Barnes TSX for Grizzly?

[Price449]

Too much logic in this bear defence thread, for your giant grizzly charging from 5 paces you should also utilize a bayonet, but you'll have to regularly coat it in some sort of poison, I'm thinking probably stone fish from Australia or maybe king cobra, which will be very difficult to obtain, and you will have to milk the Cobras (technique for getting poison) yourself or obtain through the black market, but the stone fish or maybe octopus venoms will probably work quicker though harder to obtain

It's not recommended for newcomers to "milk the cobra" this is a highly dangerous task. The untrained individual is instead recommended to train on a less venomous snake until experience and confidence are built. For example the "North American Trouser snake" affords safe training.

Cheer and ps- 500 grn lead cast bullets loaded hot will stop a freight train full of Grizzlies.

 

[Ardent]

Not the best choice, get the speed up to see knock down. We just hunted Grizzly and I watched a good member here fold one with a .300 Ultra to the chest. As I slowly gain experience on game over time I've come to an uncomfortable realisation; speed kills. Or at least it shocks.

And I don't mean 3,200fps impacts, though they're impressive, but rather bullets hitting their target above roughly 2,400fps. Don't know how I come to that number but it seems a natural delineation. Most conventional hunting cartridges impact around or above that, and it sure seems like that's where "shock effect" starts. This is not an easy admission for me as I've always been a moderate and heavy for caliber thinker, but experience is proving that a shaky assertion. Culling in Zimbabwe I've been lucky enough to watch multiple rifles work, from .30-06, to .300 mag, to .375. By far the most impressive and decisive kills belonged to the faster loads. I had specially loaded "culling loads" I'd made of heavy .375 bullets at about the velocity your 300gr will move, literally the same weight and speed range you're planning, and they were not terribly effective. Everything died, but not as quickly or as close to where they were shot as with the quicker loads.

Grizzlies are exciting, but "soft" animals. While I've just started doing it I guide hunts for them now and am peppered with "which gun" questions from prospective clients. I have to admit a.30-06, .300, or .338 mag seems near ideal in today's light. .45-70 would be low on my preference list- though it will certainly kill them. It is far from the best tool for the job though. .45-70 isn't the best tool for any hunting though mind you with its trajectory, so I'd say pack any conventional hunting rifle with confidence. .270, .30-06, .300, yada yada yada. Good hunting to you! Where does your mainland quest take you, and after what species? I'd base the gun on that.

Post Script: I should ask how fast you load those 300's in your .45-70 and what they're flying out of.

 

[Ardent]

To me, a bullet that opens up in a charge situation would be counter productive.

There is a reason African professional hunters carry guns with big solid projectiles, they may need them to save tier lives and know from lots of experience what works best.

With a charging bear I would want a bullet that holds together and breaks bone without stopping. an expanding bullet is designed to open up with ragged edges that rip and tear flesh facilitating in a quicker bleed out, with a charging bear (with a heart beat of around 16 beats a minute) a quick bleed out is going to be a long time, long enough for one to kill you easily. What you want is a big ol" hard bone breaker that will retard/stop his ability to be forwardly mobile long enough to escape or get enough rounds into him to kill him no matter how long it takes.

Hobnobbed with a good few PHs on the subject in Africa, others here have done much more, usually that solids business only applies to elephant, rhino, and for some Cape buffalo. My buffalo PH carried softs in a .458 Lott (fast), or .375 H&H (also fast). The challenge of a disgruntled elephant is much different than the bear, a soft would work better there too (elephant) if not for the fact you have so much bone and tissue to penetrate before hitting anything important. Bears that's not the case, even the biggest Grizzlies are built like import cars compared to big bovids and pachyderms. Unless we're talking ATC revolvers for work guns, solids / hard cast are the wrong way to go on bears in my opinion.

 

[Win 38-55]

I tend to think that a charging Grizzly is not going to drop soon enough unless it is a brain shot, and if it is a brain shot, a 45-70 will certainly do the job. However, just in case I'm a wee bit adrenalin charged and shoot a bit too far back, missing the brain and sending the bullet into the top of the neck, I'd prefer a solid to get down to and break the spine, not a hollow point.

 

[Ardent]

See your point 38-55 though I'd prefer the bullet that does the most damage, period, rather than hoping for one moving target the size of an orange, or another inhabiting the area of a fat cord but facing you head on. The realities of it are softs are the better choice and the guy or gal who can hit a moving orange in the two seconds you have from contemplating your pack's weight to "Bear!" is one in millions. Even an amped up Grizzly responds to the the rapid energy dump of an expanding bullet with energy behind it.

 

[Ardent]

Bottom line, pick something you are happy with, it's 99% for mental reassurance. And statistically guns fare worse than bear spray. Happy bear defence Tuesday to all, as well- we've been without a good one for awhile!

 

[Win 38-55]

... the guy or gal who can hit a moving orange in the two seconds you have from contemplating your pack's weight to "Bear!" is one in millions.

Having just arrived home from a 10 day canoe trip with somewhere around 50 portages, I have a special appreciation for the phrase, 'contemplating your pack's weight'.

 

[Ardent]

Ha! Agreed, that has come into sharp perspective as of late, we've been packing supplies in to our mountain goat operation the old fashioned way to save on floatplanes. The most populated grizzly country we have in Canada, been packing spray instead of a rifle due to the weight problem. Haven't regretted it yet!

 

[Camp Cook]

Oh how I understand the weight issue especially now that the old knees are well getting old...

Yes here it comes again = I suggest packing an ultra light stainless steel 14" barreled synthetic stocked T/C Contender carbine in 45-70 loaded with 350gr - 430gr WFNGC's.

I have a scope on mine because I can't see irons well anymore but if it was a dedicated backup gun it would have a fiber optic front post and ghost ring rear installed.