45/70 405gr

jay007

jay007

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St Albert, Alberta
I am starting to load 45/70 for my H&R buffalo classic.

The powder I have is IMR 3031 and the projectiles I have are 405gr RNFP cast.

I am having some troubles finding a starting point and what I can work up to.

If you were going to be building a round with this combo for this rifle, what would you do??
 
Lyman 48th has following for 405gr jacket starting at 46 and max 51.5gr of 3031. For cast i cant find data at 405gr but lots of data around for imr 4198.

I have switch to imr 4198 from 3031 (was using 3031 for 350gr) but in Marlin 1895 not H&R

You could also try some other powders from w w w.hodgdonreloading.com & castboolits will have some 405gr cast data but not sure if its from any reloading manual.
 
Hodgdon's online data will give you a good starting point. If you look in the .45-70 Trapdoor rifles section you'll find cast loads.

Although I shoot smokeless powder only seldomly these days, I used to shoot 405gr cast bullets ith IMR-3031 quite a lot. A light load of 40gr gave close to original .45-70 velocities and shot well in all of my rifles. When I use smokeless these days, It's mostly H-4198 with magnum primers.

Chris.
 
I'm using H4198 and for the 405 cast loads I use the starting jacketed charge for lever rifles as the max charge for cast... and start loads a few grains lower.
 
I've read many reports of H&R single shots being able to handle level 3 loads meant for bolt actions and the Ruger #1 rifles. I tried some in a handi-rifle and both shots I tried popped the action open so I stopped. I now only use level 2 loads (Marlin 1895 lever loads) for "full power" but use mostly trap door loads for cast bullets. My powder of choice for the trap door loads is H4198. For full power with jacketed bullets I use H4198, H4895, or Benchmark depending on what I have the most of. I sold my handi rifle, bought a Marlin 1895 Guide Gun, missed the single shot and bought a buffalo classic. Now I shoot black powder through the BC 90% of the time and only smokeless in the Guide Gun (don't want to clean it that badly).

The Hodgdon website has loads for all 3 power levels for 45-70's but I tend to use a lot of loads from the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook. If you are looking at loading cast on a regular basis I highly recommend picking up a copy.

pearcetopher said:
real simple
45 caliber boolit
75 grains of black powder
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Do you really mean 75gr or did you mistype and mean to say 70gr?
The original case was 70gr of powder, thus the name "45-70".
Depending on what granulation of powder you're using, good luck getting 70gr in without bulging the case. You need a special powder compression die to get much more than 60gr of FFg in a case and still be able to seat a 405gr or 500gr bullet. When using FFFg and lighter, shorter bullets (340gr) I can get 75gr in there with moderate compression. For my longer 405gr I can get about 65gr of FFFg and only 55-60gr of FFg. Seems to vary from bottle to bottle of Goex.
 
I actually just hit the range up the last 2 days. A buddy and I both are loading 405 cast in ours. I used h-4895 and he used varget. Both rifles shot well at 44gr. I did get a nice group with 46 gr also. But my shoulder started to hurt after a few on the bench. Heavy recoil loads.
 
lol i think this is honestly like the 5th post about 405grn 45-70GOV loads this week.
multiple threads is so unnecessary people on here must get exhausted repeating things.
 
leonard said:
lol i think this is honestly like the 5th post about 405grn 45-70GOV loads this week.
multiple threads is so unnecessary people on here must get exhausted repeating things.
Click to expand...

It would take less than 10 minutes for someone with average reading skills to read all five of those threads. Which wouldn't seem "exhausting" to me, but people do have different levels of reading ability and so possibly it was exhausting for you. Try to have more frequent naps and you will feel better. :)
 
P.S - I don't load my Handi loads as stout as my Ruger loads... I have tried the Ruger loads in the Handi without any problems, but I tend to stick with lever level loads, more for comfort. When I am hunting the thick stuff, that is the gun I will pull... more because I had a very useful swap barrel deer/small game hunting combo in .243 & .45/70 & 20 gauge.

 
bobjoe said:
I actually just hit the range up the last 2 days. A buddy and I both are loading 405 cast in ours. I used h-4895 and he used varget. Both rifles shot well at 44gr. I did get a nice group with 46 gr also. But my shoulder started to hurt after a few on the bench. Heavy recoil loads.
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I have the same rifle. I beat my shoulder up to. A fun gun to shoot. I used it in Cowboy Action shooting. The 45/70 cartridge is a piece of history. I love my 45/70's IMR Trail boss has a nice recipe for your cast bullets. Unique works well but you will need a filler. Nothing like shooting a 500 cast bullet and hitting a plate at 200 yds Not sure if you Know Williams makes a rear sight that will let you shoot out a little further. PM I will see if I can dig the number out. I found a lot of info on H&R and N&F on Gray beard out doors. H&R makes a lot of great single shot guns
 
I use 41gr of 3031 over a 405 gr cast bullet in my 12lb sharps. I had tried up to 45gr while developing a load and found the recoil quiet high. That's probably max for a sharps. Even 41gr gives a fair jolt.
50gr in a light rifle must have awesome recoil. Black power does work really well.
 
age said:
I have the same rifle. I beat my shoulder up to. A fun gun to shoot. I used it in Cowboy Action shooting. The 45/70 cartridge is a piece of history. I love my 45/70's IMR Trail boss has a nice recipe for your cast bullets. Unique works well but you will need a filler. Nothing like shooting a 500 cast bullet and hitting a plate at 200 yds Not sure if you Know Williams makes a rear sight that will let you shoot out a little further. PM I will see if I can dig the number out. I found a lot of info on H&R and N&F on Gray beard out doors. H&R makes a lot of great single shot guns
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I loaded 15 gr of unique with a magnum rifle primer(I know it's not needed) and no filler and I didn't have an issue with it not lighting. I know I can get a peep sight but I have a browning 1886 and it is not drilled and tapped for one. I don't want to wreck a nice rifle so ill stick with the irons.
 
9.3 Hunter said:
Yeah - whats that all about? lol
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you compress blackpowder to a certain point. it should not be shot uncompressed from what i remember.
likely 45-70 refers to how full it is without compression? hahah i only filled my 45-70 with imitation black powder once did up about 20 rounds i cant remember the load though but it was recommended to compress it some.

it shot very very poorly so i stopped bothering with it.
 
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