45-70 and moose

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loooongshotz

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With Hornady making two 350gr bullets for the 45-70 it presents a bit of a dilemma on which to chose; RN or FP. Best advice is from those who have ACTUALLY taken a moose or two with either and/or both of these bullets.
FYI. The rifle is a Marlin 1895 so no problem loading them to +P levels.
Those who have actually taken moose, or larger ungulates, will have my undivided attention. Replies offering speculation, assumption, "I heard" etc., not so much.
 
I used the Hornady 350 fp in my Browning 86 pushed to around 2100 fps ,shot a nice 20 point bull a couple years ago , one shot broadside he went 50 feet hit nothing harder a rib and this bullet went everywhere !!!,the same evidence I dug from the berms ...I wasn't really impressed ,I switched over to the Woodleigh 400 fp pushed to around 2000 fps this season,and what i've dug out of the berms has been promising considering the amount of rock in everything here the bullets were quite intact ...but only managed a 4 point prickett at 75 feet ,beaned him so it wasn't a real test to say the least .

From what I've seen, I will stick with these
 
I had a Marlin M1895GS, and still have a Marlin M1895XLR. I also have a Remington No.4 Rolling Block and a Winchester M1886 in .45-70 fwiw...

What I would advise against, is loading .45-70 manufactured bullets to high velocity.

I loaded 400gr Speer bullets to ~1800fps MV, and shot a nice black bear at point blank range. Those bullets disintegrated! Killed the bear, yes, but when I did the autopsy, and tried to fish the bullet out, I found nothing left but fragments.

I think the lesson is that most factory produced .45-70 bullets, are designed to operate at the 'stock ballistics' velocities. Like 1300fps MV or thereabouts.

Having said all that, the only way to be sure is to perform bullet tests for yourself.

I would experiment with different velocities, starting somewhere around 1400fps MV, and working up. See what real world results you get in test media. Anything else is speculation, as you say, unless somebody else comes on here that has done real world testing.

But basically, if you go too crazy with stock bullets, designed to operate at moderate velocities, they are gonna blow up...

I believe the Hornady 350gr ILs are great bullets. I've loaded them and fired them in my guns. Never did any real testing with them.
But I doubt you're gonna find any significant difference between the RN or FN, unless you like the look of one better than the other.
 
I have observed the same phenomenon with "factory" 38-55 bullets.

The Winchester FNSP as loaded by Winchester is at about 1260 fps in my rifle.

If I load them to the rifle/cartridge potential [c.1800 fps] they become "bombs"
Shot a Whitetail doe at 60 yards through the lungs with one of these loads. Complete disintegration.

However, the older C.I.L. 255 SP, which was factory loaded to about 1600, fares a lot better, even at 1800.
Also, the 255 Barnes original FNSP, specifically designed for the 38-55 [.377" diameter] also does well at the higher velocities.

I, like Demonical, am certain that you would see little difference between the Hornady FP and RN designs in the field.

Regards, Dave.
 
If you read Hornady's literature on these bullets, you will see that they are actually .458 win mag bullets that, after-the-fact, Hornady started to publish 45-70 data for.

They are tough bullets that were made to be pushed to full .458 win mag velocities, and they won't come apart in any 45-70; if anything, you may find less expansion than you want if you don't hit bone with them in your 45-70.

My father switched over to them after taking two moose with my cast 340 grain (Lee) bullets in his 1895 GBL, as he felt the hard cast did not expand enough for his liking. No idea why, since both moose were flattened, but he never recovered a bullet and for some reason decided that meant there was inadequate expansion going on. The 350 gr FP's seem to expand more than hard cast, but much less than say, 300 gr HP's out there. I handload his ammo, and it's loaded very to well over 2000 fps with both 340 hard cast and 350 FP.

We switched to the FP as any RN just seemed more likely to detonate a primer in a rifle with a tubular magazine.
 
I loaded the 350rn for 45-70 to 1800fps. No moose but did take a doe just behind the shoulder. Garden hose size hole straight through. Did not find the bullet so I am assuming is stayed intact for the most part as the exit hole was only slightly larger than the entry. I agree NOT to overload these bullets. 405gr or bigger would be good for moose too.
 
The buck I shot this fall was taken with the Hornady 350gr RNFP. I load it to about 2000fps. It went through him and disappeared into the bush, with a nickel sized hole on either side of his ribcage. Breaking through the ribs on each side was apparently not enough to cause expansion. I have no complaints about the bullet, but have only taken deer with it.
 
I have shot two 250lbs bucks with the Hornady 350grain RN chronograped at 2150fps from 22" marlin. Slightly larger exit than entrance with lung and heart shots. Proper placement on moose this bullet would do just fine. Don't think id try taking a shoulder out though.
 
If you want a tougher bullet you could go with a hard cast or get the 350 grain swift A frame. I had a bunch of these hornadys loaded up but never did take game with them.
 
I thought everyone knew you can't shoot moose with a 45-70. They see the slug coming and step out of the way... ;)
 
I've shot bear not moose with the 350 fn. Expansion was rapid and the recovered bullets were almost 1" across and flatten right out. Muzzle velocity was 1800 fps or so. 50 yard impact. In my testing of various material they seem to expand very well and come apart with impacts over 1700 fps. I haven't tried the round nose which is made for the 458 wm. I'll test them this spring in my 458wm
I've had great success with Remington 405 gr fnsp in both 45/70 and 458 wm. I realize bears aren't moose
 
I have taken 10 moose with the 350gr Horandy RN loaded to 2100fps in a Browning 1885. It was very effective with minimal damage to meat.
 
I had complete pass throughs on WT deer with the Hornady 300gr HP and I doubt they even expanded? You could eat right up to the bullet holes........Harold
 
colt1851 said:
I have taken 10 moose with the 350gr Horandy RN loaded to 2100fps in a Browning 1885. It was very effective with minimal damage to meat.
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This would be the man that knows ^^^^^^I don't think there would be a lot of difference between the RN and the FN. I've used both and not a bunch of difference. I load mine to about 1800 for my Marlin's. The rd nose have a ballisitic co-efficient about the same as an ashtray whereas the flat nose are about the same as an upside down ashtray. Shot a moose two years ago with the f/n at right about a hundred yards. That was it for him.

Either bullet is a good choice in my opinion. 350 SPEERS are great in my bolt gun but won't fit the Levers (cannelure is tooooo far back)

I don't see a need to load em hot at all. If you want a 458 Win, buy a 458 Win. Hot loads in a Marlin are not pleasent to shoot and if you do a reasonable amt of practice off the bench, they are downright offensive.
 
In everything I shot them into the jackets separated from core and the core broke up badly. I'm sure it would be lethal on deer but I wouldn't trust them on anything else personally.
 
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