45-70 and the 454 Casull

Dorian Gray

Dorian Gray

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Alright guys, i've got a question. I'm in the market for a 45 cal long gun and i'm looking towards a lever action. I've looked at ballistics tables and all sorts of other googleable stuff but i'm looking for some advice from guys who have one or both of these calibers. I prefer a pistol grip but will bite the bullet and get a straight stock rifle if i must. This rifle will be mainly used as an easily carried carbine in the thick bush so i will not be hunting with it in areas that i will be shooting more than 100 yards. This rifle will not be getting a scope put on so being drilled and tapped will not sway me one way or another. I'm not really looking to spend more than 800$ so the following rifles are what i've found in my price range.

Marlin:

1895
1895GBL
1895G
1895GS

Rossi:

Rio Grande in 45-70
R92 in .454 Casull

Henry:

.45-70 Rifle (loaded from the front of the mag tube so i'm not leaning towards this rifle very much. Maybe i'm just being picky, i dunno. I'm also not even sure this new rifle is in canada yet.)

If you guys can think of any that i might have overlooked, lemme know please. As it stands right now, I'm wavering between the rossi r92 and the 1895GBL. Also i don't reload so i know this rifle is going to be an expensive b*tch to feed, one caliber or another. I also know about the problems marlin has had in the last few years. I've dealt with it first hand and am slightly warry about buying another one but they were supposed to have their sh*t together by now but who knows. The rossi rio grandes look nice. See? i can't make up my mind. Help me out please? :redface:

Thanks.
 
I have a 1895gbl in 45 70 and a Rossi 92 in 44 mag, I put xs sights on the Marlin and Skinner barrel mount on the Rossi. I like them both but I would choose the Marlin over a Rossi without hesitation.
 
Faced with somewhat of a similar choice or decission a few years ago, I opted for the Marlin 1895GS. No regrets.

Marlin1895GS45-70.jpg


It's fairly short, durable and potent enough for my requirements. As a modern day firearm, and to truly reach the potential it's capeable of, the 45-70 cartridge really comes into its own in this firearm with handloads.

In addition to good top end jacketed handloads, it's a cartridge rifle/combo that also lends itself well to shooting a wide variety of lighter cast loads as well.

45-70lightcastloads-1.jpg


45-70Marlin1895GS-1.jpg
 
Thanks guys. Keep the reviews coming. Camp Cook, other threads have lead me to believe you have both calibers in question. Any input???
 
a few years ago , after looking at all the available 45 cal rifles , i went the other way and bought a 1892 rossi in 454 casull .

the rossi is a good 2.5 to 3 pounds lighter than the marlin .

at the time the marlins in 45-70 would only hold 4 rounds in the magazine ..... which would mean packing seperate extra ammo .

the rossi holds 10 rounds in 454 , and 11 rounds in 45 colt ..... 12 rounds of 45 schofield ( is that spelled right ?)

50 rounds of 454 / 45 colt ammo takes up about the same space as 20 rounds of 45-70

i just bought a bunch of ammo ... the 454 casull was around a dollar a round , the 45 colt was 65 cents a round .

factory 45-70 is going for around 2 dollars a round .

the factory 45-70 ammo is also loaded to low pressures so it doesn't turn the old rifles chambered in it to shrapnel .

so with factory loaded ammo , the 454casull is the more powerful of the 2 .


the only way to get the most out of the 45-70 is if you handload .
and this is where the 45-70 shines .

i could add more ... but i'm tired ... i'll add this , when i was pricing out rifles the rossi was almost 400.00 cheaper than the marlin . the marlins have com down in price , but i believe the rossi are still less expensive .

also if your going to do alot of shooting it is cheaper to reload for the 45 colt / 454 casull than the 45-70 .
 
Johnn Peterson said:
Faced with somewhat of a similar choice or decission a few years ago, I opted for the Marlin 1895GS. No regrets.

It's fairly short, durable and potent enough for my requirements. As a modern day firearm, and to truly reach the potential it's capeable of, the 45-70 cartridge really comes into its own in this firearm with handloads.

In addition to good top end jacketed handloads, it's a cartridge rifle/combo that also lends itself well to shooting a wide variety of lighter cast loads as well.
Click to expand...

Nice groups! Any particular reason why the first and third targets are the same one but with slightly different notes on the side?

To the OP:

I would go with the '92 in .454 Casull. Within 100yds no animal will know the difference between it and most factory .45-70 loads and .45 Colts are easy to find and make for much more enjoyable and cheaper practice.
 
I should add that I'll be using this rifle to hunt moose and bear. I know that a 44 mag is good enough to kill a bull moose at 100 yards so i'm confident in either the .454 Casull or 45-70. Also, though i don't reload, i know people that do and if i'm willing to buy dies/components. Most of them are willing to load hot loads for me if i so choose to shoot them.
 
VLT79 said:
Nice groups! Any particular reason why the first and third targets are the same one but with slightly different notes on the side?
Click to expand...

Same target, and same info with the exception of the date being added to the info on the side of the third target pictured.

Somewhere I have similar target examples accompanied with reload info details on jacketed bullet loads for the Hornady 350gr FP, Speer 400gr FN and the Remington 405gr. :redface:Unable to find it at the moment.
 
I like my Rossi m92 in 454 casull. Weighs 5 lbs making it feel like nothing to carry and hits about the same as a 45/70 if you hand load. Really I don't see any point to packing a heavy rifle in the bush unless you need to buy factory loads. The Rossi also has a front load on it's mag tube in addition to the loading gate and once you slick up the action they are smooth as butter to cycle and shoot. I personally don't like buckhorns so I filed down the rear sight to a flat top and I'm thinking about replacing the sights all together as I dislike the size of the front bead(feels bulky). Also the ability to shoot 45 colt loadings is awesome in the versatility department.

Overall I think that the 454 is a far superior rifle to any 45/70 in a practical bush situation. If you want to argue semantics on muzzel energy then that's your business.
 
Dorian Gray said:
I should add that I'll be using this rifle to hunt moose and bear. I know that a 44 mag is good enough to kill a bull moose at 100 yards so i'm confident in either the .454 Casull or 45-70. Also, though i don't reload, i know people that do and if i'm willing to buy dies/components. Most of them are willing to load hot loads for me if i so choose to shoot them.
Click to expand...

If your associates are offering to reload for you, reguardless which you decide on, take them up on the offer. Each of your calibre choices under the right conditions is more than capeable to the task. You indicate you will likely be using which ever you settle for on Moose and Bear. With that as a consideration, again, I'd go for the Marlin 1895GS in 45-70. The extra 'umph' of about 500 f/sec offered by the handloads of say a 300gr bullet in a handloaded 45-70 VS the same bullet weight in 454 may come in handy.
 
I own both an 1895GBL in 45/70 and a Rossi Puma .454casull. That being said if you are NOT going to reload and you want a fantastic carry gun with enough poop to keep you cozy then I would go with the puma in .454 casull. The 45/70 is MY go to carry gun, but I also handload. The factory offerings for the 45/70 are very meek as they must meet the criteria to be loaded in old trap door style rifles and any antique lying around chambered in it without blowing the action all to hell once fired. The .454 casull on the other hand is a very high pressure round so the factory ammo offered follows suit and is very stout and will have NO problem defending you in the wilderness. The hornady custom stuff with the 240gr XTP mag hollowpoints is what I would carry in my puma over any of the 45/70 offerings if I was purchasing ammo and not handloading. A set of dies, the right powder and some big ol heavy hard cast bullets will sure wake up the 45/70 but that's the other side of the fence. Hope this helps!
 
I have both a 18.5" barreled Marlin 1895GS 45-70 and a 20" barreled LSI Puma M92 in 454 Casull.

I reload top loads for both my 454 Casull = 200gr - 405gr & 45-70 300gr - 550gr

I call my 454 my 45-70 light...

Depends on where I am hiking/working on which rifle I pack if I am in grizzly country I carry the 45-70...

Both are almost exactly the same length and both handle about the same for me.

My_Bear_Defense_Guns_004.jpg
 
Now ,I dont own either but have worked with a 1895gs with those leverloution loads, but that would be what I would buy.Reason is this...the 454 in a handgun is hot...so is the 45-70. But the 45-70 in a rifle will outshine the casull in a heart beat.Load up some 405"s in it and have fun.Even if its costs you twice as much( which it shouldnt) and you have access to ppl that reload...really how many rounds per week are you going to fire? I dont think that you are gonna shoot 500 rounds a week like a rimfire.

If I am going against a animal that has the potential to stomp,kick or gore me...then I want as much power in my hands as I can get.I would take the 45-70 as a hands down winner as other ppl have stated above..
 
I load .452" 405gr @ 1550fps in my 20" barreled Casull and .458" 405gr @ 1980fps in my 1895GS 45-70...

= your fooling yourself if you think that there is any kind of comparison between the two...

:D
 
I've got both a Marlin 45-70 and a Rossi .454.

The Rossi is lighter and handier and holds more ammunition, and with hanloads, will kill anything you point it at out to past 100 yards. My .454 handloads are more powerful than factory 45-70, but not a huge amount. Anything you would be comfortable doing with factory 45-70 loads you should be just as comfortable doing with the .454 - if you're not, it's all in your head.

However, the .454 just isn't a full sized, handloaded 45-70, period. If you feel you need bullets heavier than about 360 grains (I have no idea why you would, even for grizzly or wood bison...) or if feel that you need more than about five feet of penetration on an animal (I have no idea why you would...), or if just want to shoot longer ranges (This one makes a bit more sense to me...) then a 45-70 may be better for you. Otherwise stick with the .454.

Personally, the ONLY reason I bought a 45-70 was to reach out to 300 yards or so on big animals with my scoped 1995 cowboy, as I felt my iron sighted .454 was only a 100 yard rifle, and therefore not a real "all around" hunting rifle in my neck of the woods. For a truck gun, or a bear defense rifle, or for under 100 yard hunting, the 45-70 stays home.
 
I'll bite... :D

The Rossi is a lesser quality rifle than the pre-Rem Marlins.

I trust my 1895GS more than I trust my Rossi M92 quality just isn't there.
 
If you're shootin bears and moose, go for the 45-70. It will put them DOWN.

It's remarkably accurate for such a big round, as seen in previously posted targets.

Get the 1895G, 18 1/2" guide gun in 45-70. The 450 is a more powerful round, but more expensive to shoot.

If your buying a Marlin, get a used one with the "JM" proof on the barrel. Remlington has got the new guns sorted out, but the old crappy guns are still in the supply chain to Canada so we won't see the 'good' ones for about a year.

For a bush gun, Marlin has just released a 'youth' 336. It's nice and short with a 16" barrel, great for carrying in the bush. But it's a 30-30, too light for bears and moose IMHO.

Let us know what you decide.
 
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