45-70 bolt gun

mike shickele

mike shickele

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I'm thinking about building a 45-70 bolt gun out of an Enfield P14 action. Has anyone else ever had this done? How did it turn out? Are there any other actions out there that won't cost a kings ransom that could be turned into a 45-70?
Mike
 
How about an old sportered Enfield or Mosin action. The .45-70 doesn't strike me as a cartridge that develops a whole lot of pressure (and please correct me if I'm wrong) so I'm sure they'd be adequate. That and they both take rimmed cartridges so you'd be good to go in that regard.

The only problem that I see is that the 45-70 case rim measures .608" and .567 and .540 for the 7.62x54R and .303 Brit respectively. To me it would seem like less work to use the Enfield because you wouldn't have to machine anything down on the bolt face like you might have to with the Mosin. But I'm by no means a gunsmith, I'm just thinking out loud so to speak.
 
mike shickele said:
I'm thinking about building a 45-70 bolt gun out of an Enfield P14 action. Has anyone else ever had this done? How did it turn out? Are there any other actions out there that won't cost a kings ransom that could be turned into a 45-70?
Mike
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I'm doing THE VERY SAME THING! I just have to find the P14's list of serial numbers - I hear a few batches had bad heat treat. Gonna order the rifle, get it to the gunsmith who's gonna stick the new barrel on, turn the bolt face/extractor and machine the feeding lips/magazine so it'll feed. I'll have a very short barrel and I'll try to lighten the stock a bit.

Good luck!

geologist said:
I've seen and shot a converted Siamese Mauser, very nice, elegant, natural pointing rifle.
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Siamese mausers are hard to find, P14s not so much.
 
Siamese mausers are VERY hard to find, that's why I have thought about the P14 action. I want an action that I can get top pressure in, and that has lots of aftermarket parts........that I can mount a scope on easily. That criteria pushes hard against the lee-enfield and the mossin-nagent. The P14 actions that you want to stay away from are the Eddystone, they got a little carried away on some of the actions as far as heat treatment is concerned. Apparently not all of the Eddystone actions suffer from this, but I don't know how one would distinguish between the two. Meph; we're gonna have to keep in touch, as I wanna hear the results of your build.
Mike
 
Meph said:
I'm doing THE VERY SAME THING! I just have to find the P14's list of serial numbers - I hear a few batches had bad heat treat. Gonna order the rifle, get it to the gunsmith who's gonna stick the new barrel on, turn the bolt face/extractor and machine the feeding lips/magazine so it'll feed. I'll have a very short barrel and I'll try to lighten the stock a bit.


You'll end up with a rifle that kicks so hard you won't enjoy it.
A friend of mine, a long time shooter who has owned and shot a great many big rifles and reloaded for every one, had one made on a P14, and left things heavy.
When I asked how he liked it, his only comment was that it kicked like a mule!
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H4831 said:
Meph said:
I'm doing THE VERY SAME THING! I just have to find the P14's list of serial numbers - I hear a few batches had bad heat treat. Gonna order the rifle, get it to the gunsmith who's gonna stick the new barrel on, turn the bolt face/extractor and machine the feeding lips/magazine so it'll feed. I'll have a very short barrel and I'll try to lighten the stock a bit.


You'll end up with a rifle that kicks so hard you won't enjoy it.
A friend of mine, a long time shooter who has owned and shot a great many big rifles and reloaded for every one, had one made on a P14, and left things heavy.
When I asked how he liked it, his only comment was that it kicked like a mule!
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What he is describing will probably kick less than a marlin guide gun, due to being possibly still heavier with a scope on board, and having a better designed stock. To the vast majority of people, anything over the 30-06 probably will feel like it kicks like a mule.
Mike
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You'll end up with a rifle that is heavy, somewhat clumsy, due to length and action weight, just the opposite to the Marlin '95 in it's various models.
 
I cycle bolt rifles between 7000 and 10 000 times a year. I work a lever approximately 0 times a year. If I ever "have to" use it, I think that I'll be groping for the bolt. Not to mention the fact that I think that bolt rifles are just nicer. It's odd that both of the negatives on this thread have been total opposites; one thinks it would be too heavy, another too light. If or when I build this thing, I will personally be looking for a finished weight of about 9 pounds including scope, with a barrel no more than 22 inches.
Mike
 
mike shickele said:
I'm thinking about building a 45-70 bolt gun out of an Enfield P14 action. Has anyone else ever had this done? How did it turn out? Are there any other actions out there that won't cost a kings ransom that could be turned into a 45-70?
Mike
Click to expand...


Gibbs Rifle made 45-70 bolt action rifles out of Lee Enfields (do a google search for Gibbs 45-70 Summit rifle).

Apparently most only shot with mediocre accuracy and all kicked like mules.
 
If you are running a short barrel light 45-70, you better get some porting done on it.
As a comparison, I used a No. 1 Ruger 45-70 for about four years of flat-lands deer hunting. Yes it has the trajectory of a rainbow, though I worked within it's limitations. The load I was running through it was the 300 gr. Hornady hollow point at around 1900 FPS. It was rather stout for recoil though not unmanageable. The load was death on deer out to 150 yards and was a very consistent grouping load. I tried the 405 gr. JSP loaded to near maximum. I could handle three shots off the bench rest then my eyes crossed and I got a bad headache. It grouped very well though damn uncomfortable to shoot.
Choose your loads carefully and you will find the 45-70 to be an awesome performer.
I also had a Navy Arms Siamese Mauser in 45-70, it looked just like a 700 BDL Remington accept BIGGER. Awesome shooter, easy to handle and a great offhand Black Powder gun.
 
I'll have a short barrel put on it, probably around 18". I'm used to heavy kickers, I've been shooting a 450 Marlin guide gun no problem, I can take a lot more recoil than that. I like the bolt action, I like the idea of that nice bush gun, I'll try to make it light. If the recoil bothers me, there are always ways of reducing the felt recoil so it's not what I'm worried about.

I'll have a good set of peep sights, maybe a rubber butt pad if the steel bites a bit, but I'm not expecting to need much. I'm not gonna load it very hot (for a P14 action), just a 405gr JSP at around 1950-2000ft/s.

Any more info on how to find if it's an Eddystone?
 
mike shickele said:
Meph; we're gonna have to keep in touch, as I wanna hear the results of your build.
Mike
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tactical lever said:
This is a great idea! Looking forward to updates on whatever you build.
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I'll post some images when I get the rifle/when I get it back from the gunsmith/groups when I finally shoot it! Might take quite a few months, but I've saved the thread.

Here's another idea, I could have it reamed (or barreled in the first place) to 45-90. I could still shoot 45-70, but I'd have the option and ability to shoot the bigger brother.

Anyone see downsides? I sure as hell don't.
 
Hey guys,

I am in the process of converting a p14 to 500 A square/ 50-110 loaded with smokeless. So far money is the only thing that is holding me back, but that's how projects go I guess.

Regarding actions, there are 3: Remington, Winchester, and Eddystone. You can tell the 3 apart based on their markings. An Eddystone says Eddystone. Winchesters are marked Winchester. etc.

Eddystone actions and their heat treating were a toss up. It's my undestanding some smiths won't touch them, others say do a relief cut when you remove the barrel and you will be fine. I have a Remington action, so I don't have to worry.

The 45-70 case will fit fine in the p14 action, as will a 45-90, so that's certainly a decent option.

I don't really grasp the "recoil" issue with regards to a 45-70. It's the underpowered brother compared to the 458 Win, and nobody really yells about that cartridge being too wild. And a 450 Marlin is just a lawyered-up 45-70. 450#2 is a BUGGER to get brass for.
 
hansol said:
Hey guys,

I am in the process of converting a p14 to 500 A square/ 50-110 loaded with smokeless. So far money is the only thing that is holding me back, but that's how projects go I guess.

Regarding actions, there are 3: Remington, Winchester, and Eddystone. You can tell the 3 apart based on their markings. An Eddystone says Eddystone. Winchesters are marked Winchester. etc.

Eddystone actions and their heat treating were a toss up. It's my undestanding some smiths won't touch them, others say do a relief cut when you remove the barrel and you will be fine. I have a Remington action, so I don't have to worry.

The 45-70 case will fit fine in the p14 action, as will a 45-90, so that's certainly a decent option.

I don't really grasp the "recoil" issue with regards to a 45-70. It's the underpowered brother compared to the 458 Win, and nobody really yells about that cartridge being too wild. And a 450 Marlin is just a lawyered-up 45-70. 450#2 is a BUGGER to get brass for.
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Thank you for the info, good luck with your project - it will be a hell of a rifle!
 
hansol said:
Hey guys,

I am in the process of converting a p14 to 500 A square/ 50-110 loaded with smokeless. So far money is the only thing that is holding me back, but that's how projects go I guess.

Regarding actions, there are 3: Remington, Winchester, and Eddystone. You can tell the 3 apart based on their markings. An Eddystone says Eddystone. Winchesters are marked Winchester. etc.

Eddystone actions and their heat treating were a toss up. It's my undestanding some smiths won't touch them, others say do a relief cut when you remove the barrel and you will be fine. I have a Remington action, so I don't have to worry.

The 45-70 case will fit fine in the p14 action, as will a 45-90, so that's certainly a decent option.

I don't really grasp the "recoil" issue with regards to a 45-70. It's the underpowered brother compared to the 458 Win, and nobody really yells about that cartridge being too wild. And a 450 Marlin is just a lawyered-up 45-70. 450#2 is a BUGGER to get brass for.
Click to expand...
458 American also called 458x2" made from any standard mag brass.
 
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